STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 18, 2013.

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Grade the movie...

  1. A+

    18.7%
  2. A

    20.7%
  3. A-

    13.1%
  4. B+

    11.1%
  5. B

    8.0%
  6. B-

    4.2%
  7. C+

    5.4%
  8. C

    5.1%
  9. C-

    3.5%
  10. D+

    1.5%
  11. D

    1.6%
  12. D-

    1.3%
  13. F

    5.7%
  1. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Perhaps not 'bad' but childish. Kirk's promotion was childish in its lack of realism for all the reasons spoken by Pike in this film. Chekov's promotion was childish in its realism. It isn't just about that fact that Chekov has just been placed in charge of about a dozen people who outrank him - it was a hamfisted way of giving him something to do. They could have done something similar without actually making him the chief.

    Transwarping is childish. It doesn't pay any attention to their own established laws of physics. I'm not saying that the distance is the issue - its the timing and the method of actually knowing where you are going to end up that make no sense.

    Trek has always been a bit silly but I just feel they are pushing the envelope too far. Re-watch early TOS in the light of the fact that it was made in the sixties. The science feels so much more sensible and grounded.
     
  2. Flake

    Flake Commodore Commodore

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    Having Kronos 2mins away from Earth at warp is, well, idiotic. Why bother with a neutral zone when both worlds are now next door to each other? Klingon surprise attack by its entire fleet based at Kronos would be straightforward. It should be days away at least. Preferably weeks! It contradicts everything in Star Trek so far.

    I expect the next movie will get to the centre of the galaxy in say.... 10 minutes? Why not? Why not nip to the delta quadrant in 20 mins? If it serves the plot and the pacing then so be it.

    I can only presume nuWarp is infact more like the hyperspace jump from BSG rather than old warp.
     
  3. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Oh it is. Would you buy that were it a film about the Navy? They make a point about how Starfleet is a military organization, and then they ignore it and make it look like that organization has no protocols whatsoever. That's bad.
    It reduces the tiny bit of realism that is left in science fiction/space opera and makes everything extremely cartoonish. Same with the incoherent distances, and many other things.
     
  4. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    She did look good!

    But FYI - they didn't use the nurse (who was actually a research biologist) or the yeoman (who has been used to good effect as a yeoman/security guard in the comics) or Pike's former first officer, or the leader of the Vulcan people.

    She was brought in because of her relationship to Admiral Marcus but I'm glad we have another woman. Two is better than one.

    I scratched my head at Spock's surprise at a new science officer. It's a research vessel with a crew of over 400 people and she is a lieutenant. They have more than one science officer of that rank on board (but apparently not more than two engineering officers). :rolleyes:
     
  5. Franklin

    Franklin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The thing is, there are always explanations. ;)
    Given that Scotty was throwing a fit and apparently walks off, maybe Chekov is the first person Kirk sees around in the moment and figures, "What the hell." Could be he expected Scotty to eventually come back after everyone cooled down, too.

    The entire "give everyone something to do" thing bothers me, though, because it does lead to contrived situations like this.

    Not to make too big a comparison (because of big gaps in their experience), but Miles O'Brien on DS9 wasn't an officer or even Starfleet, but he was chief engineer on the space station.
     
  6. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    Not really we already accept different ypes of warp drives, stargates, and other conceits to establish scifi universes, most of it is pretty far feteched in the first place, so the distance between warp and transwarp as a concept is negligible.

    Nonsense, even in ST09 Starfleet isnt simply a military arm of the federation. Even if it were, every series has had questionable rank structure of some kind. Regardless, its a fictional series and not 100% analogous to the modern navy, its just used as a guide.

    RAMA
     
  7. AvBaur

    AvBaur Captain Captain

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    The only thing I noticed was a mention of the "Mudd incident." (They're using her ship to get down to Qo'noS)
     
  8. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    Warp drive doesnt really rely on established laws of physics, it bypasses them.

    In what series, especially back in the 60-80s do the nominal stars and co-stars NOT have more screen time than the namless characters, who outrank them or not? Well not really any of them. Same with STNG or Stargate or B5...it doesnt matter who should go on away missions, it's the paid stars who are going. This is not reality, this is Hollywood.

    RAMA
     
  9. Aike

    Aike Commander Red Shirt

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    Because Spock doesn´t need historical facts of who Khan was and what he did. He doesn´t trust Khan, who Kirk has teamed up with and space jumped into the USS Vengeance with. Spock thinks he needs a way to beat him in order to save the captain. Then, the logical thing is to call Spock Prime. He just can´t get the info he needs from the ship´s computer. Anyway, the whole conversation between them isn´t shown. So we have to imagine what Spock Prime tells Spock.

    I was worried about this scene just being a fanwank, but it works well and feels natural in the movie. And, of course, it is great seeing Nimoy again:)
     
  10. Franklin

    Franklin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Good. It also addresses the "Will they or won't they?" question about picking Spock Prime's brain in crucial situations that was a topic of these boards for quite a while. Apparently, Spock will. Why not? Spock Prime is a resource. As you said, it's logical.
     
  11. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    I guess you missed Enterprise's "Broken Bow"

    And Deep Space Nine, where Earth, Bajor, Romulus, Kronos and Ferenginar were just a short Runabout ride away.
     
  12. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No, it really doesn't.

    Warp speed has always been as fast as the plot needs it to be. In TOS, the Enterprise traveled 990+ light years in a few hours. In TNG, Q hurled the Enterprise 7000 light years away and it would only take two years to get back to Federation space. In Voyager, it would take seventy years to travel 70,000 light years.
     
  13. beamMe

    beamMe Commodore

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    That sequence servers it's purposes: It establishes Harrison/Khan, his charisma, his knowledge and most importantly his blood and what it can do.
    The scenes tie into the film's theme of "what would you do for your family".
    And that's why Noel Clarke's character is important. He shows that perfectly ordinary people can be brought to do the most awful crimes.
    Khan managed to turn him into a suicide-bomber, because he (Khan) was known at Section 31.
     
  14. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    I'm in the US so I haven't seen the movie yet, and can't comment on it's specifics, but I think travel time has easily been one of the least consistent aspects of the entire franchise. So any travel time issues in this movie don't really worry me at all.
     
  15. Flake

    Flake Commodore Commodore

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    Yes I am aware of these episodes. I think Enterprise, Broken Bow was 4 days at Warp 5? or something? Its still a significant passage of time.

    Runabout hops? My DS9 is rusty.. but where any of these hops 2 minutes? Do we know the travel time?

    I know the ship travels at the speed of plot but the distances and travel times in STID are unprecedented in Trek and must indicate they are using a new kind of warp speed? Transwarp? You cannot deny this? The implications for telling a Trek story in future films or television are huge assuming they continue this movies continuity. The galaxy is a small place now. Smaller than ever before.
     
  16. Flake

    Flake Commodore Commodore

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    Yes, I understand where you are coming from and I agree. The new travel time from Earth to Klingon homeworld is about 2 minutes... does this concur with the rest of the franchise movies/eps thus far? I think not. Its unprecedented. Except for Star Trek V which is universally derided and dismissed. (Centre of the galaxy in 6 hours)
     
  17. SalvorHardin

    SalvorHardin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm curious, is the duration of travel stated in the movie?
    Or is it like the 2009 travel to Vulcan, where people were saying it took 3 minutes, but there were cuts in the movie where McCoy had time to change uniforms etc etc
     
  18. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Does it make the galaxy smaller? Sure. But it doesn't bother me. With films like these, so much depends on the crew running on adrenaline, action scene to action scene. So even though we don't see it from an audience perspective, those six travel days would be just as unrealistic for the characters to remain amped up and ready for action.

    It's just a trade off.
     
  19. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    In TOS' second pilot, "Where No Man Has Gone Before" the Enterprise was at the rim of the galaxy. They visited the centre of the galaxy in "Magicks of Megas Tu" and STV. In "That Which Survives" the old Enterprise covers 1000 light-years in 12 hours at warp 8.4 - they'd have made Voyager's journey in a month! In "Conspiracy" the Enterprise-D warps 900 light years in a flash. In Star Trek: First Contact, the Enterprise-E jumps from the Romulan Neutral Zone to Earth in the space of a scene break after listing to the Borg battle. Compare that with "Balance of Terror" and "The Neutral Zone", where the RNZ was so far out that messages took days to reach Starfleet and back.

    It's wildly inconsistent - but IMO since it's happened so often before, it's a valid for Into Darkness to use the ultra-fast speeds too. No transwarp, just speed-of-plot.
     
  20. Aike

    Aike Commander Red Shirt

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    My prediction is that US trekkers in general will love this movie. I think the reason we are seeing some lower grades this time around is because it has opened outside the US first.
    Here´s why.

    1) The fact is that, maybe except the UK, and it´s a big maybe, TOS was never as popular as TNG or even Voyager in many European countries or Australia and New Zealand. For instance, Star Trek (2009) sold less tickets than First Contact and Insurrection in Germany. On IMDB Star Trek (2009), has a much higher average among American voters than among non-American ones. Given that Into Darkness has 8.4 now and it is mainly international votes coming in, it will go through the roof next weekend when it opens in the US.

    2) Lots of folks that liked and loved the last one, still enjoy Into Darkness even if they grade it lower. I think this has to do with that they are mainly TNG era fans. They were just happy to see anykind of new Star Trek in 2009. But they are not as attached to Kirk, Spock and the rest of the crew as Americans are.

    3) People believed it would be Star Trek: The Empire Strikes Back or Star Trek: The Dark Knight mixed with some kind of disaster movie because of the marketing and tag lines like "Earth will fall". It´s not. It´s a lot lighter. They are just selling it like that to bring in average joe sixpack that has no interest in space battles. If you´re a trekker, forget about the marketing. Instead, read what JJ, Burke and the script writers are saying.


    4) Some have had too high expectations. So it´s good to be a little pessimistic. Star Trek (2009) was excellent. Still, this is a worthy sequel and most of you guys will enjoy it as soon as it begins. If you liked the nine minute preview, you will enjoy the rest of the movie. The fun doesn´t end until two hours later.

    I just wish I would be able to see it in the US, because it is a crowd pleaser.