STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 18, 2013.

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Grade the movie...

  1. A+

    18.7%
  2. A

    20.7%
  3. A-

    13.1%
  4. B+

    11.1%
  5. B

    8.0%
  6. B-

    4.2%
  7. C+

    5.4%
  8. C

    5.1%
  9. C-

    3.5%
  10. D+

    1.5%
  11. D

    1.6%
  12. D-

    1.3%
  13. F

    5.7%
  1. yenny

    yenny Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2005
    According to the Star Trek Encyclopedia: Joachim: Aide to Khan Noonien Singh, and one of the 96 surviving genetic "supermen" who escaped from Earth in 1996 aboard the S.S. Botany Bay.
    Joachim served as Khan second-in-comand when Khan commandeered the Starship Reliant and died when Khan detonated the Genesis Device.
     
  2. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Actually the character in TOS was JoaQUIN, not JoaCHIM. And it seems clear that Joachim is too young to be the same person anyway.

    In the novels, Joachim is Joaquin's son; when Joaquin is killed, Khan raises the boy as his own.
     
  3. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2001
    Okay, I've been thinking way too much about this movie over the last few hours and I've found myself piecing together what little I know. Here's what I think happens, and I'm just going to throw it out here not having read any posts or spoilers. Just pure speculation on my part.

    Here we go…
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    Someone found the Botany Bay, probably Admiral Marcus. Khan and his crew were then awakened, integrated into 23rd century society and given work as operatives with Section 31. Khan is given the alias "John Harrison" and a little plastic surgery. Now Marcus for whatever reeason has a change of heart about his decision and has these people killed off. Khan trusted Marcus and this new society and this is how he was repaid? This makes Khan mad and he retaliates with a terrorist attack. Kirk then goes after him not knowing that Marcus caused this anger. Somehwere along the line Carol falls for Khan. She serves as the Marla McGivers character this time around. Daddy can't be too happy about this. Anyway, Khan is stopped, but not killed, leaving room for a return. We got an original story with elements of "Space Seed" and The Wrath of Khan. Next time, we could get a follow-up with more elements of The Wrath of Khan and The Search for Spock.

    Like I said, I know nothing. Maybe I'm onto something and maybe I'm way off. I'll know for sure in three weeks. Not gonna read any posts.
     
  4. 6079SmithW

    6079SmithW Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2009
    I'll just roll with it like the way Klingons went from their TOS appearance to their TMP appearance with no explanations. They had always looked that way. In my mind I'll just pretend Kahn always looked like Cumberbatch. Of course, the Klingon appearance got a retcon and maybe nuKahn will too someday. Until then I won't lose sleep over it.
     
  5. Sky

    Sky Captain Captain

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    Tokyo
    Yeah for me this is a non-issue. The exact looks or ethnic backgrounds don't need to match. If the actor is good, he'll make it his Khan anyway.
     
  6. StarMan

    StarMan Vice Admiral Admiral

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    New Zealand
    It's a nice touch utilizing Section 31. I wouldn't have thought they would bother to be honest.
     
  7. Captrek

    Captrek Vice Admiral Admiral

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    May 24, 2009
    The genetic engineers spliced some Time Lord DNA into the Augments. Cumberbatch is the Second Khan.
     
  8. yenny

    yenny Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2005
    You are right about Ricardo Montalban being born in Mexico, but his parents were born in Spain.

    The Genetic Enhancement Project was started 1959.
     
  9. OneBuckFilms

    OneBuckFilms Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It could be explained also by Section 31, if they had further enhanced his genetics.
     
  10. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No explanation for Khan's appearance is offered in the film, any more than an explanation for Kirk being a blue-eyed fellow who doesn't look much like William Shatner was offered in ST 2009.
     
  11. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

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    Oh yeah, and we'll probably sympathize with Khan because he'll fight for the disenfranchised in this so called bright future. And the Klingons are in on it too because it's an opportunity to strike at the Federation.
     
  12. yenny

    yenny Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2005
    The Eugenics War was fought during the years 2065-2070. That if I'm right about Jonathan Archer great-grandfather (who had fought in that war as a US Army Officer) being born between 1995-2025?
     
  13. yenny

    yenny Captain Captain

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    Jul 14, 2005
    He is also to old to be born in the 20 year time period. So he had to be born on Earth and escape with his dad Joaquin aboard the Botany Bay.
     
  14. Enterprise is Great

    Enterprise is Great Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2004
    Inuniverse Cumberkhan and Montalkhan look identical just as inuniverse Kirk in AbramsTrek and TOSTrek look indentically or Scotty or Uhura or whoever. NimoySpock instantly recognize PineKirk as Kirk. no biggie really.

    And Section 31 is actually name dropped in the movie?
     
  15. throwback

    throwback Captain Captain

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    It's not clear when the Eugenics War were. We have the late 20th century (TOS, TAS), the mid-21st century (ENT), or the mid-22nd century (DS9).

    I understand why the comic series leading into this film didn't give information on the discovery of the Botany Bay. However, why didn't the film include this information and show the betrayal, as seen from Khan's viewpoint, in a flashback?

    I have issues with the USS Vengeance; namely, the issue of a covert black ops unit using this behemoth. The purpose of such an unit is stealth - you don't want to draw attention to your activities. This ship is contrary to the nature of such an unit. Excuse me, here, if I offend, but it is as idiotic as planting bombs in a camera-heavy public area while wearing your trademark hat in your trademark style.
     
  16. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored Co-Founder of ISIS Moderator

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    Well, it is called The Eugenics Wars, so there's no reason why it couldn't have been a series of separate wars connected by a common theme, such as genetically engineered supermen and/or cloned, cybernetically enhanced, or disposable soldiers like the drug-addicted soldier from 2079 in Encounter at Farpoint. That could explain why there was a war in the 1990s, why the war was confused with WWIII in the 2050s, and why Archer's grandfather was fighting in a Eugenics War in 2079.

    Space is vast. The ship could be ten miles long and still be "stealthy." Plus, Section 31 might be taking a more active and overt role in this universe, and will flex their muscle publicly from time to time.
     
  17. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Section 31 isn't namechecked in Countdown to Darkness, whereas Kirk is told by Pike that Admiral Marcus of Starfleet Intelligence is covering up April and the Phaedus incident. The implication is that it's SI that's rotten and trying to start a war.
     
  18. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly so.
     
  19. abaldwin360

    abaldwin360 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Yep!

    I'm 38 and a life-long trek fan. My fiancee is 23 and a huge sci-fi fantasy fan (Doctor Who, Harry Potter, so on and so forth) but had never watched Star Trek.

    I got her to watch the '09 movie first and she enjoyed it, so I then got her to watch Wrath of Khan, after which she was hooked, I've since gotten her to watch The Search for Spock, Generations and First Contact.

    She's super-excited about Into Darkness and it's been awesome getting her involved in the fandom.
     
  20. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But if Legion's synopsis is accurate, it is mentioned in STID itself.

    If Pike doesn't know about Section 31, then Kirk won't know either. Pike could simply be assuming that the entirety of SI is at fault when it's actually Section 31 that's doing the bad stuff.