STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 18, 2013.

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Grade the movie...

  1. A+

    18.7%
  2. A

    20.7%
  3. A-

    13.1%
  4. B+

    11.1%
  5. B

    8.0%
  6. B-

    4.2%
  7. C+

    5.4%
  8. C

    5.1%
  9. C-

    3.5%
  10. D+

    1.5%
  11. D

    1.6%
  12. D-

    1.3%
  13. F

    5.7%
  1. Jedi_Master

    Jedi_Master Admiral Admiral

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    Thankfully, no writer has been dumb enough to include that sort of silliness in the films. So much of the Trek tech has the potential to be used very poorly, as we can see in STID, with the cross galaxy transporters and the magic blood. Hopefully we will move past that in the next film.
     
  2. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Thing is, using the transporter to reverse aging is every bit as much part of the Star Trek universe as magic blood.
     
  3. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    I'm confused, people keep saying The Magic Blood brought someone back to life.

    But, what I remember is Noel Clarke's little girl, and Kirk, were both terminally ill, but, neither one actually died, they were just cured of their terminal illness. Did I miss something?
     
  4. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Kirk died.

    "You were barely dead." - McCoy
     
  5. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Although that's actually a complete mischaracterization of "Unnatural Selection" much like J.'s attempt to compare Bones' serum in "Miri" to a cure for death. Almost like some of us can be prone to rummaging through a grab-bag of questionable comparisons when trying to defend certain bad ideas as having Precedents In the Sacred Texts. :p

    It was actually, when you think about it, kinda parallel to Billy Crystal's "he's only mostly dead" bit from The Princess Bride. Maybe if he'd been all dead they'd have just had to go through his pockets and look for loose change. :lol:
     
  6. Jedi_Master

    Jedi_Master Admiral Admiral

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    Personally, I don't see the need to defend the magic blood bit, it is what it is, just a silly part of a rather good film. You can't let Kirk really die, so you come up with some way to save him, after he uses regular muscle power to realign the warp core... (snickers) sorry, there were a lot of silly things in that film.
     
  7. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly. And I have no problem with embracing the silliness, I could just (as usual) do without people retro-fitting the rest of Trek to justify it.
     
  8. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Problem being, it just isn't "Unnatural Selection". The transporter is used to restore crew to a prior state in "The Enemy Within", "Lonely Among Us", "Unnatural Selection", "Rascals" and "Tuvix".

    I'm pretty sure I'm missing one or two as well.

    The magic of the transporter is actually more pervasive then magic blood. Yet, somehow, people were able to keep their suspension of disbelief in check.

    As far as the magic blood goes, McCoy says he's going to put Kirk in a cryotube to preserve brain function. Under that scenario, I'm not sure that Kirk is clinically dead.
     
  9. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    Precisely. And many times people were killed/dead for a short period and brought back to life (Deanna with the guy who siphoedn off his evil thoughts to her, the queen in the racist episode that fought Tasha to the death, and several other times)
     
  10. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    The central dilemma in TNG's "Rascals" is resolved using the transporter as well. I suppose you could also throw in "Realm of Fear" (life forms trapped in the transporter beam) and even "Relics" (rescuing Scotty from the transporter buffer) and "Second Chances" (a duplicate Riker is created when the transporter beam is reflected back to Nervala IV) too, as stories using the rely on the magic of the transporter, if in a less traditional and tangential way.

    Too, Enterprise's episode about the creator of the transporter, "Daedalus" sought to utilize the "magic" of the transporter as a means of recovering a character thought dead as well.

    I, for one, am amazed at BigJake's theoretical understanding of all the possible permutations of functions the transporter device is capable of. I don't know why he's declaring the transporter's use as "mischaracterization" of "Unnatural Selection" -- I watched it the other day.

    The crew used Pulaski's DNA fragment from before she was infected to isolate the healthy pattern and used the transporter to filter out the virus that was aging her. It's ridiculous and very likely not at all scientifically plausible, but that is undeniably how the show portrayed that particular "fix" for the episode's dilemma.


    I had no problem believing the Khan's blood regenerates Kirk bit. It was another crazy futuristic fix in the film series for something that we wouldn't be able to do today. It was also something that was spoiled for me by Robert Meyer Burnett on Twitter and Facebook about two months before the film's release, when he viciously nerd-raged about it when he discovered it's use in the film. When several of his friends all responded with comments along the lines of "That better not be a spoiler" he wound up taking the comment down, but the damage was done. Even still, I don't see what the big deal is, at least within the confines of the story in Star Trek Into Darkness.
     
  11. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    I remember the audience laughing (myself included) when McCoy quipped that Kirk was barely dead. Urban's McCoy was just a blast. I hope to see more of him in the next movie.
     
  12. Jedi_Master

    Jedi_Master Admiral Admiral

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    To be fair there is a lot of silliness through out Trek, it just seems to ebb and flow. Sometimes there is a decent stretch without too much goofiness, then BOOM, a wave of silly stuff appears.

    You will never get bored pointing out dumb/silly stuff in Star Trek.

    Flashing Ferengi globe light that gives very specific people headaches - anyone?
     
  13. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I can only refer you to the discussion upthread, most of that was already covered. Right down to the point of getting desperate enough to defend a weak point to bring up "Tuvix." :rommie:

    A character thought dead. The distinctive characteristic about pretty much every particle in the ink cloud of false comparisons here is that none of them involve actually resurrecting someone. "Restoring a prior state" is not the same thing.

    I'm declaring BillJ's claim that it was "used to reverse ageing" as a mischaracterization (designed to make it sound kinda like resurrection). Your description of it is, as it happens, correct and not similar to Bill's claim.

    Like I said earlier, most instances of the transporter's "magic" were given specific explanations and limits. Pulaski's rescue in "Unnatural Selection," for instance, was an extraordinary procedure that could easily have killed her. Giving it limits and explaining extraordinary outliers -- however silly the story at hand may have been, and they got plenty silly (hello "Tuvix") -- was a deliberate decision by the writing team at odds with the claim that as the stories went it was just "magic." I'm talking about how it functioned narratively, not about how thin the scientific justifications were or weren't.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2015
  14. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The transporter can turn old people young, young people old, take one person and turn them into two and merge two people into one.

    If that isn't magic, I don't know what is. :shrug:
     
  15. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I agree. You don't know what is. :p

    (EDIT: It would appear this was an ill-judged joke. Sorry. I'm just being a smartass, what I'm really saying is "agree to disagree." :D)
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2015
  16. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    Except, that's exactly what the transporter did in the episode. Putting aside your getting hung up on a mere turn of phrase, the episode clearly shows, effectively, that the transporter reversed Pulaski's advanced age.

    It may not be the ultimate goal or intention behind the crew's action to save her, but when she steps down off the pad after rematerializing, her age, magically, has been reversed.


    [yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBelT-Xi1CY[/yt]​
     
  17. Zaminhon

    Zaminhon Captain Captain

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    And just think, the JJ-Verse had a clean slate with the option of making a more consistent and believable world with as little "magic" as possible. They threw away their opportunity in the second time around, now we have magic blood. Warp to Warp transportation was cool enough in the first film... at least it was used as it was intended , to transport someone from point A to point B.
     
  18. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm simply not interested in a consistent and believable world. I grew up when Star Trek was weird and wild and inconsistent more often than not. When anti-matter could destroy the universe and there could be two Kirks and Vulcan had been conquered and they fought lizard men and Greek gods and had a showdown at the OK Corral.

    From 1987-2005 they bought into the hype of Star Trek being this social entity for change and it was worse for it. Abrams brought back the fun and excitement. I like Star Trek when its fun and exciting.
     
  19. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That's your prerogative. As discussions of tech and "magic" go I personally am interested in this:

    Because it just seems to me like a solid guide to good sci-fi storytelling period, Trek or not. (And I think you're drawing a false dichotomy between something being intelligently crafted in this sense and being "fun and exciting.")
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2015
  20. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Star Trek is full of technobabble solutions to problems which ought to have huge implications for future stories but are conveniently swept under the rug. To single out one of them as somehow being uniquely awful is to say "it's bad because it's mauve" when looking at the entire spectrum of purples.