STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 18, 2013.

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Grade the movie...

  1. A+

    18.7%
  2. A

    20.7%
  3. A-

    13.1%
  4. B+

    11.1%
  5. B

    8.0%
  6. B-

    4.2%
  7. C+

    5.4%
  8. C

    5.1%
  9. C-

    3.5%
  10. D+

    1.5%
  11. D

    1.6%
  12. D-

    1.3%
  13. F

    5.7%
  1. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    Yeppers. Especially the Kirk and Spock parts. I have all of the DC runs in storage, need to invest in the DVD version of the comics. Those were some great stories.

    Edit to add: Playing around in Memory Beta, I think I found the comic I want them to base the next movie on.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2013
  2. Ovation

    Ovation Vice Admiral Admiral

    The writers for TOS have no need whatsoever to make any such acknowledgement in order to validate what was portrayed in the Abrams films. The latter films are simply exploring something that is inspired by the brief moments of flirtation in TOS--because it's a different timeline and so any such deviation from the original is perfectly allowable. No one is obligated to like that artistic choice, but it requires no "approbation" from decades-past writers. That would be an absurdity.
     
  3. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm fine with doing something new in these films (more admirable than just dredging up old stuff like Khan), I just don't care for what they've been trying with Uhura.
     
  4. Rayna

    Rayna Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Isn't there a very early episode where Uhura literally sings about her feelings for Spock in the rec room?
     
  5. Rayna

    Rayna Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Or maybe that's what someone was talking about when they mentioned The Man Trap.. I'm sorry, I can't remember what episode it was!
     
  6. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    She basically teases Spock by singing about him, pointing out his resemblance to the Satan, which was something the writers like to make fun of in the show ("The Apple" ends with a similar bit with Bones and Spock pointing out that if anyone resembles the Devil, it's Spock). Right after she sings that bit in the rec room she then immediately sings to Charlie to tease him as well.
     
  7. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Charlie X :techman:
     
  8. Malaika

    Malaika Captain Captain

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    *cough*

    ...
    "I decided then from the character that I read [Spock] that I wanted to be very much like that character but in a feminine way. And Gene said, and I was sharing this with George [Takei] the other day, when I told him that I thought of Spock as my mentor. Because if you remember Uhura was the only one he was able to teach the Vulcan lyre to(*) and he sang and spooffed on Spock. Now, you could have never had a love scene in 63 between Uhura and Spock but there were several hints and [back to Roddenberry] Gene was one in the kind of beginning to follow that and he wanted to do episodes if we had gone past the third year" - Nichelle Nichols TrekFest 09 in Riverside, Iowa

    (*)
    Deleted scene from “Elaan of Troyius
    http://www.startrekhistory.com/DS1.html
    [​IMG]

    adding to the scenes already listed here, one that is often underrated is the one from the episode “Is There in Truth No Beauty?”. Kollos addresses Kirk, McCoy and Uhura as Spock knows them:
    Spock: This is delightful! I know you! All of you!
    James Kirk, captain and friend for many years.
    And Leonard McCoy also of long acquaintance.
    And Uhura, whose name means “freedom.” She walks in beauty like the night.

    McCoy: [to Kirk] That’s not Spock!
    Spock: Are you surprised to find that I’ve read Byron, doctor?
    McCoy: [to Kirk] That’s Spock!

    what is interesting about this is that unless you think that Kollos could be so familiar with ancient earth poetry and he could know that "Uhura" comes from the Swahili (ancient earth language) word uhuru that means "freedom", you now know that Spock looked for the meaning of her name and he reads poetry in regards to her. (and after all Kirk and McCoy are really his friends too, no?)


    I don't think people are saying there was a Spock/Uhura thing in tos and they don't need to prove anything here to validate the romance being canon in the reboot that is an alternate reality

    I think that people are simply saying that the idea of them together isn't so "crazy" and non canon because there were hints even in the old trek that:
    a- they were attracted to each other
    b- it could have been an idea that the tos writers had too but due to the time being too racist and bigot they gave up.
    So it isn't so far fetched to put them in an actual relationship in an alternate reality where they met each other under different circumstances, sooner and younger than in the prime timeline.
    You know that thing called "what if?" This is what alternate realities should be for.
     
  9. starburst

    starburst Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    So I take it you missed the whole sequence when she stood alone and confronted a number of Klingons, the whole reason she was there was that she could speak Klingon something the original version (at least in STVI) wasnt able to.

    It wouldnt be Star Trek without communicators (and the fact they now receive text messages is a nice touch) and how do you think tablets and other computers will evolve over the next 200 years? They will become more advanced but should still look similar if not just smaller.

    Ok that bit was a bit dumb, you would think they would build a system to allow them the option to align the core but then that would involve a magic "turn it off and back on again wait for it to align" button.

    Hardly, The Motion Picture is worse as are TFF, Insurrection and Nemesis and I dont mind any of those films.

    Care to explain how its any different to how their friendship has been shown in the past? "Captain, please, not infront of the Klingons" springs to mind.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2013
  10. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Awesome post worthy of being quoted in its entirety. :techman:

    Seems like Orci and Kurtzman did some research that went far beyond just rewatching the episodes.
     
  11. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Thanks for sharing that. It is an interesting "what if", given the timing of TOS and such. I'm not sure I would have been crazy about it if they had actually gone that route. As far as romance goes with Spock, I still prefer that one sided deal with Chapel pining for him, but Spock not feeling anything back for her. When it comes to Spock having feelings for someone, I prefer the standalone story "This Side of Paradise".
     
  12. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I just saw the movie. Is's another horrible JJ Trek film. First, I'll name the few good things in this movie. Simon Pegg, Karl Urban, Lenonard Nimoy and Benedict Cumberbatch are good actors, and did well with what they had. Cumberbatch was cast horribly as Khan, but he's a good actor and did as well as he could with the role. As for scenes I liked, it was hilarious when Kirk was trying to beat up Khan, and Khan weasn't effected at all.

    Now that the positive is out of the way, I'll talk about the negative. This isn't all the negative stuff, and I'm not going through the whole story, but these are just things that come to mind. The overall story was fairly stupid. Kirk being relieved of command was fairly pointless, and (just as a relevant tech thing) a ship as big as the JJ Prise is not going to be traveling in gravity, much less act as a submarine.

    There were a few scenes where I think the bad tech officially went from "only fans will get angry" to "makes no sense regardless of wether you care about it or not". The klingon neutral zone is far away from Starfleet, yet you can not only teleport there with a small module made of bullshit. It was stupid when it happened in the first movie, at this point, scotty's "formula" has basically made transporting over almost unlimited distance possible, although to be fair the Klingon homeworld, as shown in the movie, is apparently only a 5 minute warp trip away. So, I guess iuts not that far to transport :klingon: If the klingon neutrtal zone/homeworld were that close, the klingons would have invaded long ago. Its practically on the federation's doorstep. Based on how long it took the Enterprise to get from their to earth its actually probably closer to Earth than Vulcan was in the first JJ Trek movie. Also, warp is not like going down a river, and you cannot be knocked out of some stupid "warp stream" like what the dreadnought did to the JJprise.

    When it comes to the villains, the klingons looked horrible. They've never looked that bad before, this is easily the worst make up job they ever had. Khan was acted as well as he could, and he was slightly interesting, but he wasn't very similar to the actual Khan. He was just a smart villain with the same name.The dreadnought was a weird idea, and there is no way in hell it could be flown by one guy. Admiral Marcus's plan was stupid, and he was a moron. Starting a war with klingon's because...it was going to happen eventually anyway? In Star Trek VI, similar thinking made sense in the context of the movie. In this case, he was obviously crazy, and I have no idea how he could build a huge Starship in the solar system with no info being leaked at all.

    Just for the record, The Wrath of Khan is my favorite movie of all time. so, ripping off its ending really pissed me off more than most. That said, I don't think I've read many review, even positive ones, were anyone thought that rip off (with Spock's "KHAAAAAAAAAN" scream) was a good idea. The magic blood was a complete cop out, and really stupid. I really wish they had just killed Pine off. that would have been awesome.

    Now, for characters I haven't mentioned. Pine, Quinto and Saldanna were, once again, the unholy trinity of horrible actors. They don't have any ability to act at all and that, combined with being badly written characters, was a terrible combination. Spock/Uhura's little lover's spat was particularly annoying. Spock was also super emotional for what felt like half the movie. I wish old Spock had been on the ship to slap his whiny other universe self. I also have no idea how the Kelvin exploding made Carol Marcus not only like Star Fleet but be an officer, but besides that she was fairly bland and I didn't care about her one way or another.

    Overall, while this was horrible, it was slightly better than the first one. Partially because I had no expectations for it being good, and partly because a few slightly interesting things did happen. The special effects were decent, and even if the warp core looked like a bunch of car engines stuck together atleast it looked like an actual room instead of a pipe maze sometimes.

    I gave the movie an F in the poll, and if I were to give it a numbered grade, it would be a 2/10 (which is better than ST09's 0/10).
     
  13. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Since it isn't real, I like that they took and made it different. It now seems like a powerful and dangerous process.

    The rest of your complaints have been discussed. Not everyone is going to like every single iteration of the franchise. For the record, I gave the film an 'A-'. Another solid outing.

    Real facility...

    http://penderspen.wordpress.com/201...he-darkness-where-did-you-get-that-warp-core/

     
  14. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Gotta disagree with the "bad acting". Pine, Quinto and Saldana are just fine, the only issue is the work they're given which makes their characters unlikable. I cite the moment Spock praises Kirk for his decision not to use the torpedoes as a great example of what they two actors could pull off if they were given writing that more or less aligned better with what we had in TOS. It's the same characters, but Pine and Quinto make it their own and I'm able to buy them as the characters. Hopefully this is the kind of portrayal we'll get more of in future films.

    And yeah, the Klingon Empire does seem ridiculously close. The most curious thing however is that the neutral zone seems to be WITHIN Kronos' system. While the Enterprise is sitting in the neutral zone, you can see Kronos from a distance. :vulcan: If that's how far the Klingon Empire expands, then I can't understand what makes them a great threat. Heck, they don't even intercept the stolen ship that Kirk drives until it's in their own atmosphere! Talk about poor planetary defense.
     
  15. Cara007

    Cara007 Lieutenant

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    I will give you the Khan scream and rip off scene of Kirk's death as been far from great but saying Pine, Saldana and Zachary are horrible actors is not criticism. It is not even bad criticism. it is hate speech.:wtf:

    If there is anything both JJ Trek's film has been praised for is how the acting is always excellent and how the ensemble cast are all brilliant and work together well.

    You are so talking out of spite and hate.:eek:
     
  16. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    It's his opinion, and this is the place for him to have posted it. Now that he's watched the movie at last, it's reassuring to know that kirk555555's review is consistent with the grade he voted in the poll many months ago.

    No one is obligated to agree with everything or anything expressed therein. However, it's also best to confine criticism of any poster's review to its content and to leave any criticism of the reviewer unspoken.
     
  17. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    This exactly expresses my position, too. :techman:

    And, thanks for the observation about Is There In Truth No Beauty? Your point about that episode is something that's absolutely clear in hindsight, but which I had failed to notice.

    Perhaps the Kelvin incident changed her father, and thereby the relationship he had with her, which in turn altered the course of her life.
     
  18. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Really?

    There's no way in hell one guy could fly a spaceship?

    Ever hear of computers? Automation? Bueller?

    :brickwall:

    Though some of that could be attributed to artistic license, this version of warp may be somewhat different from what we were used to in the old timeline.

    Warp strafing goes back to TOS, it's just that TNG effectively decanonized it.
     
  19. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    And Carol in Starfleet is nothing new. A lot of STID and ST09 makes me wonder how extensive of use the writers made of sites like Memory Alpha and Memory Beta on top of the books they used.
     
  20. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Try TOS, where moving at warp looked exactly the same as moving at impulse.

    Besides, it looked to me as if the Enterprise was knocked out of it's own warp field (blue stuff = visible warp field) to me.