STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 18, 2013.

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Grade the movie...

  1. A+

    18.7%
  2. A

    20.7%
  3. A-

    13.1%
  4. B+

    11.1%
  5. B

    8.0%
  6. B-

    4.2%
  7. C+

    5.4%
  8. C

    5.1%
  9. C-

    3.5%
  10. D+

    1.5%
  11. D

    1.6%
  12. D-

    1.3%
  13. F

    5.7%
  1. Ln X

    Ln X Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I can fully understand guilty pleasures, it's why I love ST Insurrection so much and why I feel Battlefield Earth is a decent film. I could have overlooked a rather dodgy plot if STID came with some juicy thoughtful and ponderous moments. Hell I like passion when it's combined with some great moral principles and a situation which ain't contrived. But I just think that after STID, we are not going to see scenes like this from Star Trek again for a long time...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjYkuJb40J0

    Or... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiJ_18Qib4A

    That's what I've been pounding the table about. Those are two scenes which have emotional stakes far greater than STID, but they work so well because they never went overboard and all...
     
  2. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    How is Picard not going completely overboard in that scene?

    I think your grading Star Trek Into Darkness on a Modern Trek scale. The original show had big bombastic emotional characters. What we see on the screen fits perfectly with the Star Trek I grew up with.
     
  3. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Which is why some of us had such a great time watching it! I wish "Nemesis" had had an emotion factor of 11. They killed off my favourite character and yet I shed not one tear.

    Ah, so perhaps this film was not made with you in mind? :vulcan:

    You are no longer part of the cinema-going public, but it looks like JJ was partly successful because you did venture out for this film!

    If I hear about a movie that intrigues me, no way am I waiting seven years before picking it up on DVD.
     
  4. Ln X

    Ln X Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Picard does go overboard, he reaches this emotional climax but then finally realises what is happening to him. The scene's best bit is when he simmers down. Whereas in the nuTrek's style, Picard smashes that phaser against the display and then we cut to some action scene or climatic development. That would have been JJ Abram's approach, once an emotional climax has been reached let's hurtle to the next action scene or over-dramatic moment.

    And yes I grew up with modern Trek, it's the only Star Trek I watch. I have seen bits and bobs of TOS and it is a product of its time. It was Star Trek in its infancy and a prototype in using a sci-fi drama to explore social issues, so we can forgive any such flaws or weird moments.

    But the new Trek films are supposed to be about reinventing the franchise, acknowledging the original series whilst taking elements from TNG and DS9 (where Star Trek developed its maturity). The 2009 Star Trek film did this pretty well, but STID seems several steps backwards and if anything is a devolution into the Star Wars genre. I think Star Trek should stop worrying about being relevant and stop trying to compete with action blockbusters (it is not an action or science fantasy franchise!). If the story and the characters are great then Star Trek can still retain its identity and still be a little nerdy and ponderous.

    If a movie like Inception can be made and make hundreds of millions in the box office, and Inception is as weird as they come and it taxes the audience's brain which STID sadly doesn't, then why should Star Trek have to come down to the low standards of today's films? Star Trek did not develop through avoiding risks; which is why VOY and ENT lead to the franchise's demise.
     
  5. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think you misunderstand the point of this reboot. Kirk and Spock are Star Trek. What exactly would be the point of bringing them back if you're simply turning them into Picard and Data?

    I think you're taking what you wanted the movie to be and deciding that was the motive of making it. Nowhere do I remember them talking about taking elements from the other series other than as nods to those fans. I also love how a show that talked about revenge, rape and destruction of entire worlds somehow wasn't mature. It was every bit as mature as any of its offspring.
     
  6. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    So.... you don't want it to make money...
     
  7. Ln X

    Ln X Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Wow! That was one of those ocassions were a movie nearly did make me cry, I have never actually cried while watching a movie but when I watched Nemesis for the first time, I couldn't believe when they killed Data!


    I do not wait around seven years to pick up an intriguing movie for DVD. What I'm trying to say is that my DVD collection rarely contains movies which are rather new or recent. It's like a spectrum from the seventies all the way up to the mid 2000s.

    Having read some reviews of STID before the movie (I've never been all that concerned with spoilers) I thought I knew what to expect. Everything was praising this movie and saying how better it was compared with the Star Trek 09 movie, so I thought I would be in for a real treat. When they said there was a great villain and much more moral complexities and stuff, I really did think that STID was a return to form of modern Trek albeit with a bit more pace, more action and more soapy moments.

    The beginning made me feel right at home,but afterwards it just went downhill, the first half had some promise but it never really delivered and when STID started exhibiting the signs of what poor movies do: flaky plot, poor characterization, bad pacing, OTT drama, a lack of cinematography, plot points that go no where, and lastly cheap shots of flesh. I was left wondering what the critics and everyone else found so good about this movie. It's like the reverse of everyone trashing the film and to your surprise it's actually pretty good, with STID it was the reverse.
     
  8. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Who says that's what the new films are "supposed" to be? Maybe you supposed this, and if the films don't meet your exact supposition you are disappointed?

    I thought they were supposed to simply be reviving the franchise from its awful Voyager/Nemesis/Enterprise popularity slump and to start the franchise making big bucks again. That is my supposition and the films have done that - and more!
     
  9. Ln X

    Ln X Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I liked ST 09 and it had far more maturity and depth than STID had.


    It would make half the money, but if you halved the budget then Paramount would still be getting the same proportion of returns from its investment. You half the budget by trimming down the special effects, being far more careful and measured with the action scenes and cutting down on a bloated advertisement and promotion budget.

    But with JJ's approach, the next Star Trek movies will still make as much money as STID. But by that time the franchise will be all but unrecognisable, for me anyway STID sets a very ominous tone for future Star Trek movies. All I can say is this; it will become really obvious when (and if) the third movie arrives.

    That's why I hope STID is the last Star Trek movie for some time, the franchise either needs to take a long breather of several years or it spawns a new series. The nuTrek characters just would not work in a series format, again it is pretty obvious why, so we would need a new setting and a new crew. But now it's about the money and new ST movies are the best way to milk this franchise.
     
  10. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Star Trek Into Darkness looked and felt like Star Trek to me and I'm a fan of The Next Generation and Enterprise as well. :shrug:

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, that was a pretty ridiculous statement. One might make some argument that the tribble scene was redundant - not a particularly persuasive one, but an argument nonetheless - but the opening with the child was proper set-up.

    It's remarkable that some people are so quick to pronounce the "lazy writing" sentence on any story they dislike, then others turn around and go after writers when they do it right. :lol:
     
  12. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah Paramount, think small! :shrug:

    Wasn't that fans' complaints about STs II, III, V and VI?

    No, it'll still be Star Trek.
     
  13. Shazam!

    Shazam! Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Horseshit. It set one thing up and then did an entirely different thing later on. You may as well have had him be able to shoot balloon animals from his ass.

    As ridiculous as it is, the tribble scene was actually the superior set-up scene because it, y'know, set something up which actually paid off later in the film.

    However, had they used McCoy to do a little research on Khan, discover the miracle child and then use that as a reason to run tests on the tribble it would have a. given McCoy something to do b. tightened that particular plot thread and c. rendered both the opening and tribble scene vital to the plot. As it stands now you could literally edit out the opening scene and lose nothing from the story.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2013
  14. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    But if you edit out the opening, why is the father turning into a suicide bomber?
     
  15. Shazam!

    Shazam! Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You'd literally just start with the explosion. Is he ever brought up again or do they just say that Khan bombed some building?

    EDIT: Remembered that he was brought up later in the briefing but my point still stands that you could lose that scene(s)
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2013
  16. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Entirely different ? The blood saves the girl from a deadly condition, and later saves Kirk from a deadly condition. How is it even slightly different ?

    I don't get that. There's plenty of action in the movie but there's also quite a bit of dramatic tension and chatting. Did you guys all miss that ?

    But why would they lose hard cash ? To please you ?
     
  17. Shazam!

    Shazam! Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Being dead is entirely different to being alive.
     
  18. Pingfah

    Pingfah Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, why bother with any details, nuance or setting the scene. Hell, why bother with any of the film at all? Just start the film at the final ceremony, a voiceover can explain the rest.
     
  19. Shazam!

    Shazam! Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Good point.
     
  20. Pingfah

    Pingfah Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You should take that advice then, these folks will be all the better for it.