STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 18, 2013.

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Grade the movie...

  1. A+

    18.7%
  2. A

    20.7%
  3. A-

    13.1%
  4. B+

    11.1%
  5. B

    8.0%
  6. B-

    4.2%
  7. C+

    5.4%
  8. C

    5.1%
  9. C-

    3.5%
  10. D+

    1.5%
  11. D

    1.6%
  12. D-

    1.3%
  13. F

    5.7%
  1. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    ^^

    In my review above (or on the previous page), I didn't even touch on Khan, for one. Commenting on him, sadly, seemed surplus to requirements. Suffice it to say, Benedict Cumberbatch, saddled with a monotone script, does little with the character, and largely plays him like a block of wood. There's none of Ricardo Montalban's rich bravado or self-satisfied posing here. It seems impossible -- to me -- that Cumberbatch's Khan could lead a fly to shit, much less rule over one-quarter of the Earth's population, or keep control of fellow genetically-engineered supermen and women in a biological oligarchy in which he is top dog and even something of a patriarch/god to his compatriots.

    That's something else I wish to take the film to task for; or rather, the people responsible for conceiving it and bringing it to the screen. The trailer material, in my view, promised something closer to an epic battle of wits ("Shall we begin?"), but this never materializes in a film which is too busy delivering a thin allegory for a post-9/11 America, mainly in the form of action vignettes every fifteen minutes. Khan is more like Data -- or Lore -- menacing Kirk with slicked-back hair, a lean, somewhat toned, body, neat, confident stance, and pale, chalky face. Here and there, he allows a little emotion to slip out (well, in one villainous "backstory" monologue, mainly; one of hundreds of z-grade cliches carried over from the former movie), then sets about enacting an explosive vengeance more reminiscent of Nero, who bunged up the last film with his banal threats and deadly black supership that wasted almost everything in its path. Khan is like a wounded animal still privately licking his wounds. He doesn't ignite or command the screen. He simply delivers the prerequisite plot stuff, like some talking information kiosk, and then it's onto the next scene. Abrams and his writers wasted one of Trek's iconic villains; and they did it without blinking.

    That's my opinion, anyway.
     
  2. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    I respectfully disagree with your assessment of Cumberbatch's Khan. I felt him both menacing, and capable of empathy, unlike Montalban's original portrayal of the character. To each their own, however. It may come down to taste.

    I will say, though, that it was Cumberbatch's Khan which drew me to his role as Sherlock Holmes in the new BBC series. I find his acting style both enigmatic, and charismatic.
     
  3. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Thanks for respectfully disagreeing.

    BC didn't do a terrible job with what he had, in my opinion. There was a cool, cold, and yes, somewhat enigmatic quality, that I think he conveyed well.

    But Khan, to me, is much more than just that. BC's Khan wasn't hugely menacing, in my view, and I found that Montalban could be empathetic, even when he was turned into more of a B-movie heavy in TWOK.

    I'll have to check "Sherlock" out. I've been meaning to see what all the fuss is about for a while. But in that sense, I had no preconceptions about BC's performance. I took it for what it was; and it didn't really do a lot for me.
     
  4. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    He crushed a guy's skull with his bare hands.
     
  5. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    I was simply stating facts, not commenting on them. I like the new look of engineering.
     
  6. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I have to know the answer!!

    What did they mean by they stunned their ride in the beginning of the movie, were they actually going to RIDE ON that creature?

    Do you think it was domesticated by the natives?
     
  7. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    That was my understanding.
     
  8. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Was it tethered? It must have been tethered. And big enough for two.They must have already tested it out to know it would let them ride it. Since they would smell totally different than anything the animal had smellled before.
     
  9. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Not tested much. Look at its reaction to Kirk. :D
     
  10. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe they just startle easily..
     
  11. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    With Evil Villain Rage or just some good ol' superhuman adrenaline. Neither makes Khan particularly menacing, in my view.

    In fact, at the moment of crushing Admiral Robocop's skull, Khan revealed himself to be a petty emo kid, and rendered himself momentarily vulnerable to attack. His urge for simplistic recrimination saps the scene of intrigue and power. It's more like Ru'afo killing Admiral Dougherty in ST:Insurrection.

    This same kind of vengeful killing method was done far better, in my opinion, in Ridley Scott's "Blade Runner" (a stunning sci-fi tone poem of a film, it must be noted, that predates STID by three decades). There, Roy Batty was truly menacing, with his slow-burn intimidation of Tyrell, and both the lighting and the music conveyed a feeling of raw horror utterly absent from STID's boorish, run-and-gun histrionics.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2013
  12. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Didn't Roy Batty also crush someone's skull? Or.. something?
     
  13. Mad Jack Wolfe

    Mad Jack Wolfe Commander Red Shirt

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    Their Tauntaun was in the shop. The Nibiru critter was a rental.
     
  14. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    :) :) :)

    I like it when people talk about tauntauns.
     
  15. Zeppster

    Zeppster Commodore Commodore

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    I didn't really like Cumberbatch as Khan. I think he was a much better villain than in the last one. So was Adm Marcus.

    The last 30-40 minutes which became a reverse TWOK was much weaker than the first 2 hours which set up a good story between the crew vs Adm Marcus. That was a much more dramatic, and much better story. When Khan killed Adm Marcus he turned from an interesting character to a cartoon villain. And the story kinda fell apart from there. Not saying it was bad. I quite like the movie. But you had more cartoon elements than you did actual elements that were built over the film.

    Cumberbatch was a good augment. I think if they just went with him as a counterpart to Khan this story works better because Cumberbatch just didn't have the presence t hat role deserves. He was really good and gave some solid moments though and was a far better villain than in ST09 and probably overall one of the best villains in Star Trek movie history. The only reason that they made his character Khan in this film was to have the scene where Spock yells his name to re-enact TWOK. But even that was flat compared to this one because of how much drama was built into that moment in TWOK.

    The stuff between the Enterprise Crew and Adm. Marcus was much more interesting overall. It was all set up over the course of the movie. It was much better framed. The last 30-40 minutes Khan pretty much became a cartoon villain and little more. You didn't see any real motives for doing what he was doing for the most part. Which is pretty much all you got in TWOK.
     
  16. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I found the "war-crazed admiral" storyline by itself silly and cliche.
     
  17. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah I'm sure that's the reason. They made that whole scripe just for that one word. :lol:

    Yes, but well done, imo.
     
  18. siskokid888

    siskokid888 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Cryogenic, reference your critique, there is some I agree with, and much I don't, but I won't go point by point. The one thing I will take issue with is your doubt in the ability for Kirk to directly contact Scott. I have a phone in my pocket right now which I could use to call an individual in Shanghi, China, (or send him a text message) if I so desire. I'm sure by the 23rd century, such communications technology will have advanced to cover even greater distances person to person.
     
  19. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Well it wasn't comm-to-comm call. Kirk's communicator used the ship's system which in turn used subspace relays and such.
     
  20. Zeppster

    Zeppster Commodore Commodore

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    Seems like the communicators also used text messaging. Pike was called to the meeting reading something. They are more or less cell phones at this point. But then again the cell phone was inspired by the communicators from TOS.
     

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