Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 18, 2013.
I saw the movie 2 weeks ago and still haven't been able to make up my mind about it.
On the one hand, it's a good action movie with enough humour, emotions and ST-references to keep a fan happy... on the other hand I feel that this movie is kind of a missed opportunity due to trying to keep fans happy.
* Why have 2 villains - and neither of them really fleshed out? Introducing Section 31 was a nice touch, and it makes sense in this nuTrek-universe, and it would have worked as kind of a background thread that weaves throughout a couple of movies, kind of a plot arc, but Adm Marcus came across as paranoid warmonger. And we didn't really get a reason for his conflict with his daughter. I'm a fan of connecting people and places, but those connections have to have explanations, they don't just work because TPTB want them to.
The same applies to Khan. Did Harrison really have to be Khan? I felt that was forced because just the name doesn't bring back the character itself. So why not have a genetically engineered villain called Harrison? Section 31 could have worked with volunteers and genetically enhanced them - and then used them as kind of toy soldiers. Harrison escapes and starts his revenge. Khan's background wasn't changed, since the Botany Bay has been in space for generations, so every one (i.e. ST-fans) knows he's evil. And even if he's able to make sense to this Kirk we as the viewers know his real agenda. And that takes away from the suspense. It's no longer a question of who's right, but rather of when is he going to reveal himself.
* I really liked the symmetry of the death scene to TWOK. But why cheapen Kirk's sacrifice via Khan's all-healing blood? When I saw that scene in the trailer I thought it would be Pike sacrificing himself in the TWOK-way. And honestly, in retrospect I'd have preferred that to this rather simple resolution (and Pike's senseless death early in the movie). And it would have meant that there's no ready-made all healing blood lying around in some cryochamber on Earth for future use.
* Did Uhura really have to have such a big role, being in practically every scene and talking about emotions whenever (in)appropriate? Saldana's a big name now, granted, but I'm a fan of using characters when it makes sense, not just because the actors have to have a certain amount of screen time.
* Back to Carol Marcus: In the last scene when the Enterprise is recomissioned and Kirk welcomes her as a member of the family... when she turned around after that, I definitely wouldn't have been surprised had she been pregnant...
* 3d: Unfortunately, around here the movie was only available in 3d, but I think it would have worked better for me without it. Lense flares *and* fast movement *and* 3d were a bit too much IMO.
I certainly hope for the next movie that it's going to be original material and a bit less action-heavy. Let the characters grow and shine - after all that's always been the strength of ST. At least IMO.
I hate 3D in general, but in this movie I didn't even notice any 3D that was worth mentioning, so I don't know why they even bothered.
Orci & Kurtzman are fans. Any "fan service" is because they are adding things that they'd like to see in a ST movie. If other fans are happy, that's a bonus.
Huh? Carol had no conflict with her father until she got curious about all information on the torpedoes vanishing from Federation databases. She states this in the movie. From there, we see her squirm as she learns more and more about the admiral. When we do.
No. But it they kept him as an all-new villain, people would now be ranting about a "lost opportunity" to revisit Khan.
It did, for all the people I've seen the movie with.
I've just seen the movie for a fourth time. This movie has plenty of suspense!
You wanted Kirk to stay dead?
Ask Nichelle Nichols.
Made sense to me.
Some plot threads are fun to be left dangling.
The 2D DVD will be out by Christmas.
Like this one? And a few homages and callbacks to a 31-year old movie do not make a crime.
Yeah, we want to hear the heavy-handed messages about tolerance, meetings around long tables about interstellar diplomacy and the rescue of the Andorian ambassador from the surface of Sylax IV. Until we wish everyone was dead.
It's funny that the two most unoriginal outings are the most succesful. It's all about execution and promotion, the content is secondary. They never had to resort to blatant rehashing of previous plot points, lines of dialogue or even entire scenes back in the TNG, DS9 VOY days. But they shot themselves in the foot by cutting budget and promotion and hiring editors for directors.
There were many, many complaints that TMP rehashed "The Changeling", that too many episodes of TNG were "rehashes" of episodes of TOS, and that VOY stole from itself over and over.
You're talking about First Contact and The Voyage Home, right ?
I guess not.
You forgot Shade of Gray.
I limited myself to one example per show in question.
Saw the movie yesterday, and good lord, I spent an obscene amount of time trying to catch up with the thread afterwards, and even though I skipped about 100+ pages that were mostly pre-release speculation, I still didn't manage to read everything...so forgive me if I touch upon something that somebody else has already said.
I'm somebody who was on the fence about the previous film (I refuse to continue a numbering system that was only actually used for the original TOS films, which ended 22 years ago). For every nifty touch that I genuinely enjoyed, there was something absolutely brain-dead that had nothing to do with violating Trek canon. And I refuse to take any connections to said canon very seriously, even though they perpetuate the concept in this film. This is a reimagining paying lip service to its predecessor. (But those who do insist on trying to rationalize how B literally diverged from A might want to take into consideration how often the prior version of this crew traveled back in time. If their adventures have been replaced with a new reality, this could potentially have had much further-reaching effects on the timeline....)
Anyroad, I found this installment to be much more solidly crafted and generally enjoyable. The new versions of these characters are fun and I mostly found them well-utilized and entertaining. Loved all the little easter egg nods. The villain featured in the trailers was exactly who I figured he'd be...and any doubts that I might have had evaporated in the scene where Kirk beats himself up trying to pound on "Harrison". Who else could it have been? But they used him in a different way that kept me guessing. You-know-who's cameo was kind of corny and unnecessary to the plot, but nonetheless an unexpected treat as I'd been completely unspoiled going in.
I had a feeling early on that they'd recreate Spock's sacrifice in some way, and hoped they wouldn't be so unoriginal as to literally redo it with Quinto's Spock. What they did was...clever...entertaining...but I'm not sure it elicited from me the reaction that the filmmakers intended. I saw the blood cure coming as soon as Kirk headed for the reaction chamber...it had been set up so obviously earlier in the film, and was just dangling there conspicuously, waiting to come into play. So far from taking Kirk's sacrifice seriously, I repressed myself from giggling out loud, lest I might disturb other movie-goers who were taking it at face value as a solemn moment.... As for Quinto's yell...it was another shoe that had been waiting to drop for most of the film...at least they used it in a clever and dramatically appropriate way. (I have no problem with this version of Spock being a bit less restrained than Nimoy's in extreme circumstances...that much was set up in the previous film, so it's consistent for this version.) And then they topped it off with a Spock/Khan match-up...something that should have been done in TOS.
Did anyone else have a feeling of deja vu when super-healing blood was used as a plot device in a series that co-stars Zachary Quinto? I know the show fell out of favor, but am I really the first person to think of giving a shout-out to Claire...?
My prediction for the next film: time travel. I'm picturing a greatest hits mash-up of "City on the Edge of Forever" and The Voyage Home. Could they actually dust off that old "Spock kills Kennedy" idea? Fandom would explode--Try protesting that it's not Trek when it's Roddenberry's idea....
Nitpick: that's "déjà vu".
I hope not. I hate time travel, and we've had it in the last movie again. At least last time it was kinda clever.
Yes, because we wouldn't want *50* "Shades of Grey".
This is a massive thread with hundreds if not thousands of posts, so I won't go into a full 'review' here. I will say that this movie, of all the previous Trek outings, was the most human. There were a lot of tears in this movie, our crew actually felt things on screen in ways that we've never really seen before. The gut punch of Kirk losing his command and the tears of gratitude when Pike moved heaven and earth to put Kirk back on a starship. Uhura listening as Spock tells her why he seems so reckless and uncaring. 'Harrison' recounting his reaction to the fate of his crew.
Whatever its shortcomings, this movie absolutely nailed the people who live and work on the Enterprise and their relationships with each other.
Sorry, but to me there was some kind of byplay that this father/daughter-conflict didn't just come up with the torpedos.
Maybe people - but not me.
If you had bothered to read instead of commenting phrase by phrase you'd know that I'd have preferred that the death scene had been with Pike - and yes, that Pike had (irrevocably) died in that scene.
You can't really tell me that you felt touched by Kirk's death - especially knowing that he wouldn't stay dead, can you? The hint with the Tribble early on in the movie was quite heavy-handed, after all...
People criticize Spock's death in TWOK because it got rendered meaningless with his return - talk about meaningless sacrifice here with Kirk.
I wouldn't mind Uhura - if her role would have contained more than talking about emotions in inappropriate situations (and beaming down to Earth herself even though that's a security officer's job IMO).
Sorry, but where was the original material in STID? Khan? Not really. Section 31? Equally not likely.
No idea who you're referring to by "we" - but *I* want to see something like that because if I want action and space fights and exceptionally meaningless dialogue I'd rather see Star Wars.
Who did grow in this movie? Kirk's the only one who got a hint of character development, but everyone else?
Spock's death in TWOK was meant to be a price that Kirk had to pay in order to A) survive Khan and B) understand that he can't always cheat death.
In Into Darkness, it was a way by which Kirk would grow to understand the responsibilities of being captain. The two scenes don't have the same impact, but in both cases, Kirk has to survive in order for them to work.
Three thousand seven hundred and seventy-six at this time. </data>
Typo fixed but for the accents, which I'm not bothering with.
I'm talking this crew traveling back to the 20th/21st century...story-wise, a different animal from how time travel was used in the '09 film.
Still, they've done that twice before. And I still hate time travel.
^Keep in mind that it's more a prediction than a preference on my part. I'm just trying to get into these guys' heads and think of what they'd want to do next....
On an unrelated note, I've seen a lot of people say that security guards should have been beamed down in the climax instead of Uhura....Dramatically speaking, it could only have been Uhura...she was the only one who could talk Spock down from his rage, and it's a pretty common conceit in these types of series that you never use a nameless extra to do a job that one of your established characters can do. I have zero issues with how they've used the new Uhura in this series so far.
All of the regulars were pretty well-used in this film except maybe Chekov. Urban's McCoy is highly entertaining, but I don't know if we'll ever quite get the classic Kirk/Spock/McCoy triangle in this series, as Kirk and Spock have more of a comedic love/hate relationship in this version.
Which makes sense narratively, but clashes with reality, where the exact opposite is the norm.
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