STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 18, 2013.

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Grade the movie...

  1. A+

    18.7%
  2. A

    20.7%
  3. A-

    13.1%
  4. B+

    11.1%
  5. B

    8.0%
  6. B-

    4.2%
  7. C+

    5.4%
  8. C

    5.1%
  9. C-

    3.5%
  10. D+

    1.5%
  11. D

    1.6%
  12. D-

    1.3%
  13. F

    5.7%
  1. cbspock

    cbspock Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    In season 1 Sulu was left in charge several times. Errand of Mercy he was told to leave if the Klingon's showed up. The scene in Trek 2009 in the transporter room before they go to the Narada reminded me of that episode in particular.


    -Chris
     
  2. cbspock

    cbspock Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I really liked the effect when the Enterprise was shot out of warp, leaving a trail of debris. I think this is the first time we ever saw a debris field in Star Trek from a one on one space battle. (I guess it would be 2, if we count Balance of Terror)


    -Chris
     
  3. mos6507

    mos6507 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I know this is veering off-topic, but the strength of TUC in the larger context of Trekdom is its portrayal of a more cultured Klingon rather than the Viking/Samurai stereotype in the TNG-era shows that often veered on caricature with all that grunting and howling and mugs clanking together.

    There was somewhat of a breaking of the 4th wall going on by casting a Shakespearean actor to sling Shakespeare as well. Everyone knew who was under Chang's mask, and so it felt fitting to let him quote Shakespeare.

    It's also been a Trek tradition to make literary references, all the way back through TOS.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eXB1Yj05Fw

    The idea is, at least in Starfleet, that everyone's well-educated in the liberal arts and these things just kind of flow out of them. You saw that again in TNG with Picard quoting Hamlet (one of my favorite TNG moments).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irYYBx8djsU

    So it's hardly Nick Meyer alone doing this stuff.

    Khan's a monster but he's also supposed to be a super-genius, so he is well-read and likes to show it now and then.

    Trek has always (at least until JJ) been very preachy which is not unlike Shakespearean drama with all those lofty monologues.
     
  4. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    Unlike STV, STTMP could easily have been saved in the writing process. Think STNG's Tin Man, which had a constant threat and still had a personal story (Spock vs Tam).
     
  5. mos6507

    mos6507 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It's not an original concept that is most important. It's the skill in execution.

    JJ's reliance on secrecy as the be-all-end-all is kind of like another bad filmmaker (M. Night Shyamalan). It's not the destination that matters, but the journey. Otherwise something like Wrath of Khan would be enjoyable only once, so you can be shocked when they kill off Spock.

    To me, action set-pieces like Kirk flying his Falcon-ripoff through Kronos as if it's the Death Star in ROTJ--it's just dull rote action. Barrel roles and SW-style one-liners in the cockpit about not being able to fit through cracks. The build-up of the Reliant's surprise attack and the cat-and-mouse that leads to cracking the security codes and lowering Khan's shields "here it comes" complete with Horner's perfectly synced soundtrack--that is sooo much more entertaining.
     
  6. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    I find both entertaining. :shrug:
     
  7. cbspock

    cbspock Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Me too :)
    Trek 2-6 were filmed like TV episodes. JJ Trek and TMP were actually done on movie budgets. If TOS had a budget, I could totally see them doing a scene like we saw in Into Darkness. Even on DS9 they had a runabout chase through an asteroid belt, or runabouts being chased even Defiant hunting down Jemhadar fighters, etc. Nothing wrong with that.

    Back to TOS, Doomsday Machine had some great "one liners" back in the day.


    -Chris
     
  8. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Precisely what I was told almost weekly throughout 1980. But I had only been exposed to random eps of TAS and a few eps of TOS in the 70s, a fascinating series of "from the set of TMP" newspaper articles in the week leading up to the premiere of TMP, and reading the novelization. I was totally captivated by TMP and no film ever since has so overwhelmed me.

    I probably helps never to have seen "The Changeling" before seeing TMP. But TMP's also a "reunion movie", in the tradition of often very kitsch shows such as "Rescue from Gilligan's Island" and "A Very Brady Christmas". Goldsmith's music was beautiful! The trip around the Enterprise in drydock was amazing for me, as a newbie; I can only imagine some ten-year veteran fans being delirious by such generosity of screentime.

    But yeah, coming out of the cinema from my first viewing of TMP (alone), ST 2009 (with a friend who'd also found Trek via TMP) and to a slightly lesser extent STiD (several TrekBBS members), I had that similar feeling of deep, personal satisfaction that I never got from ST II or ST IV, as popular as those films remain.
     
  9. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think 'captivating' is a great way to describe TMP. I saw it when I was quite young and it was so different from the series that it caught me off-guard in a good way. It looked amazing and I like the way the characters appeared competent, crisp, and professional overall. I thought all it needed was some more character moments between the supporting cast outside of delivering lines and repeating orders, and some exciting scenes off the ship.

    However, TWoK holds together as the best of the bunch for me because it works on so many levels. It has its share of dumb moments and I wish a bit more of the background from the novel had made it onto the screen but it is just a great movie.

    I think NuTrek is far more childish in its approach than most of its predecessors but the rot started with STIV. STIV is a comedy and works really well but V and VI tried to follow in its footsteps by turning the main cast into caricatures. This works less well in more serious stories.

    NuTrek has got the balance right with most of the cast though. They work to give them all a moment in the spotlight and the developing relationships are really fun to watch. A bit more of that in TMP and the movie would have scored even more highly for me.
     
  10. Caligula

    Caligula Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I have not had the opportunity to see it multiple times yet, or surely I would have caught on to this as well. So much shit was happening in this movie, action-wise, that I was bound to misremember something.
     
  11. Amasov

    Amasov Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I made this for someone just as a joke. :devil:

    [​IMG]
     
  12. indranee

    indranee Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ :lol:

    Can I steal that, Amasov? :)
     
  13. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    That's REALLY funny. Did you ever read how back in 78 Shatner wished they'd use THE PRICE OF THE PHOENIX as the basis for the first film?

    No,I don't think anybody overuses italics quite like they're trotted out in TMP novelization. If you just changed it all to caps, it would seem like the way they include Roddenberry's comments in THE MAKING OF STAR TREK book.

    Since GR really didn't have much to do besides give occasional notes on the rough cuts for the better part of a year, and on account of how awful most of it reads, I have never doubted he wrote it. It certainly reflects some of his interests, and very specifically it reflects all the Von Puttkamer tech advisor influence on the space travel aspect, which is also present in the GR draft of IN THY IMAGE (maybe the ONLY thing in his draft that is really an improvement.)

    But it would have been nice to have a published novel version of THE GOD THING written by him as a basis for comparison.
     
  14. Amasov

    Amasov Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Absolutely. :)
     
  15. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

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  16. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Finally saw the movie a second time (this time in 3D), and I have to admit... I thought it was a helluva lot better this time.

    I'm still not crazy about the kind of story being told of course (all the fantastic worlds and adventures out there, and we're stuck watching the crew go on some Rambo-style revenge mission to capture a terrorist? Really??), but it is what it is, and the movie still manages to tell that story in a pretty exciting way. And the overall plot even seemed to hold together a lot better than I remembered too.


    (Although I am still annoyed at the fact the Enterprise never even fires so much as a phaser during the entire movie. I mean, I get that the ship was supposed to be completely outmatched during the battle, but it'd be nice to see it put up SOME kind of fight early on!)
     
  17. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I prefer longer stories but I agree - that was a really well-written issue.
     
  18. Blue_Trek

    Blue_Trek Captain Captain

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    I agree, as the Star Wars Christmas special is to A New Hope,
    TMP is to STID. :lol:
     
  19. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Blasphemy !
     
  20. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    I don't know which is more ridiculously absurd, that line or the fact that VERY BRADY XMAS' bad guy is Capt Esteban in SFS.