STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 18, 2013.

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Grade the movie...

  1. A+

    18.7%
  2. A

    20.7%
  3. A-

    13.1%
  4. B+

    11.1%
  5. B

    8.0%
  6. B-

    4.2%
  7. C+

    5.4%
  8. C

    5.1%
  9. C-

    3.5%
  10. D+

    1.5%
  11. D

    1.6%
  12. D-

    1.3%
  13. F

    5.7%
  1. CommanderRaytas

    CommanderRaytas Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Maybe. I didn't get the impression, however, and just mentioning something of the sort would have made me happy. In all honesty I don't think they bothered.

    Well, at least they didn't kill him.

    Ah, something else I liked about the film: THEY GOT SEATBELTS ON THE ENTERPRISE! And about time, too.
     
  2. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    IIRC, Paramount tried to sell "Star Trek" back to Roddenberry in the early 70s, but he didn't think that it was a good investment at the time and it would have taken all his savings. After all, it was now a dead series and no longer in production.

    And then it went into syndication, and endless early prime time repeats, where it finally built its huge audience.

    "Restricted budget" doesn't mean shoestring budget. It was still a very expensive series to make.
     
  3. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Forgot to say: I gave the movie a "B".

    I thought it was entertaining and that there weren't many things that bothered me. There's some "Trek" in there, after all, so that's good for me.

    The movie doesn't seem to be on its way to making huge money, however, which is dissapointing. The more money it makes, the better the odds of CBS thinking a series would be a good idea. I guess it won't happen for a while. :(
     
  4. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    In everything I've ever read about TOS, everyone said they were on a shoestring budget and had to economise on everything.
    They had to recycle scenes, voice overs, planet shots, interiors.
    The network were complaining to them about the cost, demanding less 'planet' shows as they were too expensive.
    Now I suppose they all could have been lying and GR was secretly pocketing the extra cash but I don't think so.
    The problem with TOS and all the Star Trek shows was they had to show spacey modern stuff and the prop makers had to build them from scratch. Shows like nuBSG and Firefly show grungy contemporary interiors which are easier and cheaper to source.

    I don't know why TOS seemed so expensive in comparison to TNG though, which would have had exactly the same problems. Maybe some TV making costs have decreased over the years?
     
  5. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Every TV show economizes.

    Go back and read "The Making of Star Trek". The budget was extremely generous for a one-hour drama. But the production team still had to economise - recycle scenes, voice overs, planet shots, interiors - to bring the scripts to fruition. They were quite transparent about how the money was spent.

    Factor in for inflation and the budgets for TNG and TOS were probably very similar. TNG was able to be produced more efficiently because Paramount did things such as pre-selling the international home video and broadcast rights, and projecting the costs for the permanent standing sets across the first five years.

    Keep in mind that TOS required two pilots to sell it. The go-ahead for a full season of TNG was given while "Encounter at Farpoint" was still in pre-production. IIRC. Confidence of success was perhaps higher?
     
  6. Chu'lak

    Chu'lak Lieutenant

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    Garrett Wang ‏@GarrettRWang
    As far as action and entertainment value go, the new film has no peer at the box office...as far as story goes, it needed work...


    Ok, I don't know what to make of this. The star of the episode "Favorite Son" says the STID story needed work...
     
  7. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    I wouldn't call any of Star Trek "cerebral". We first heard that term in reference to Star Trek in lectures by Gene Roddenberry, explaining how "The Cage" was originally rejected by TV executives. They wanted less things to think about and more action.

    Were there really that many "thinking" issues in "The Cage" than in "Into Darkness"?

    Was there really that much more action in "Into Darkness" than in "Where No Man Has Gone Before"?

    Garrett Wang needs more work. :rommie:
     
  8. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No.

    Yes.
     
  9. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Well, I think so. They explore the theme of illusion quite a bit, without being too obvious about it. I assume "cerebral" means "makes you think". And I think the studio was right to think it wouldn't "click" with their audience.

    Anyway, I think Into Darkness is smarter than people give it credit for, but I wouldn't call it cerebral.
     
  10. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    And that's bad because...?

    I know you enjoyed the movie, teacake. So did I.

    What episodes are fans now saying are the "cerebral" ones that JJ should be emulating?
     
  11. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    It makes you think. Especially about the nature of terrorism. And the ongoing "Nature vs nurture" theme, from the previous film, via Pike and Kirk's confrontations in the latest one.

    How much more thinking do we need?
     
  12. Ancient Mariner

    Ancient Mariner Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ I'll have to think about the answer to that.
     
  13. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    STID is NOT cerebral, but it is topical. It's more relevant than 90% of the ST movies.
     
  14. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Nothing is bad. I don't want cerebral. I make my own cerebral scenes, sex scenes, love scenes and conspiracy scenes in my head wherever Star Trek fails to deliver.
     
  15. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I agree.

    Here's an incomplete list off the top of my head. You may disagree.

    'The Cage' thinking issues:
    1. The morality of Pike perhaps not answering a distress call.
    2. Pike's disaffection with being in command and being in control over so many people's lives.
    3. How people would cope with not being able to trust their eyes and ears.
    4. Would being trapped in a 'Cage' where all your wants seem to be satisfied be that bad?
    5. What about the fate of Vina?
    6. Would you really kill yourself to avoid being imprisoned in a guilded cage for the rest of your life.
    7. What about the fate of the Talosians. Surely Starfleet could help them is some way. But was it worth the risk?
    8. A woman as 2nd in command. The horror of it all.

    STID 'thinking' Issues.
    1. Is it moral to execute an enemy of the state without trial?
    2. Is it moral to use someone against their will for the greater benefit of your umm planet/country?
    3. Was Kirk and co really wrong when they broke the PD?
    4. Was Marcus completely wrong in every way? Surely someone had to do something about defending the Federation?
    5. Was Kirk too reckless for command?
    6. Is it OK for you to invade someone else's planet for a really good reason? And then kill a whole lot of their people?
    7. Would you kill 42 people to save your daughter's life?
    8. Did they do the 'right' thing in the end be refreezing Khan? What about his followers. They didn't do anything? Yet?


    The thinking issues in 'Cage' seem to me to be more 'cerebral' and sci-fi themes while the STID issues are more contemporary political ones - which frankly is what Star Trek is quite often about.
     
  16. Botany Bay

    Botany Bay Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I just had a look at this. Couldn't help myself :lol:

    TOS had a per episode budget of $190,000 initially, but we know this was cut at least twice, and they were making episodes for around $180,000 by the end of it.

    Let's go with the $190,000 figure.

    In 1987 dollars, this is $660,000, about half of TNG's $1,300,000 budget per episode.

    The first Trek film, TMP, cost around $156 million in today's dollars, compared to Star Trek : Into Darkness which, I believe cost $190 million.
     
  17. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Well your question was whether the Cage made you think more. My answer is yes. I don't think ID makes you think that much, although I did say it makes you think more than people give it credit for, so that's something. I actually think we kinda agree, here.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2013
  18. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    Cerebral is a misnomer really. In regards to The Cage, it's simply what the studio called it, ie: not enough gunfights and action, and too much talking not that it was too "smart". The issues in The Cage were perhaps less compelling than the ones in STID are to us in 2013.
     
  19. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    The original post we were responding to was this:

     
  20. Ancient Mariner

    Ancient Mariner Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The elements for thought and discussion are there (as conveniently listed by CommishSleer). It's up to individual viewers to choose whether or not they want to give them any further exploration or deliberation.