STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 18, 2013.

?

Grade the movie...

  1. A+

    18.7%
  2. A

    20.7%
  3. A-

    13.1%
  4. B+

    11.1%
  5. B

    8.0%
  6. B-

    4.2%
  7. C+

    5.4%
  8. C

    5.1%
  9. C-

    3.5%
  10. D+

    1.5%
  11. D

    1.6%
  12. D-

    1.3%
  13. F

    5.7%
  1. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    You're a bit obnoxious here trevanian. I never said it wasn't for me, I said if they never go there I won't mind. I like trek for a lot of reasons, it doesn't have to be all things to me.
     
  2. DarthPipes

    DarthPipes Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    The only thing Gary Kurtz did was cause ESB to go overbudget, just like he would do with The Dark Crystal and Return to Oz. You read comments from the people involved in ESB and they didn't know what Kurtz actually did on the set.

    As for the political stuff, by Into Darkness's logic, killing bin Laden should never have been allowed to have happened. Thankfully the filmmakers aren't in charge of such things.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2013
  3. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    Truly, a substantial contribution. "Facts are stupid things." :lol:


    And in a democracy that's a fair point for discussion - but not one you'll see being brought up in many summer blockbusters.
     
  4. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2011
    I don't think "Let that be your last Battlefield" was childish, if you are suggesting that. Because it is supposed to show the absurdity of the argument, by doing something simple. If you think it's dated in terms of make-up, it was a shoestring budget and 45 years ago.

    JJ-Trek brings it up "We can't have another Nero-style attack. We need to keep people safe, and I will do that by making us strong!" But there's no counter-argument except to put those words in the hands of the antagonist and we are supposed to instinctively think he's wrong. But there's no good argument to take Marcus' place. Spock would stand as a perfect counter-weight if he did more than quote the book. He has the experience of losing his home planet and has had to deal with that pain. Or introduce a character from a different culture that has already had to deal with this in their life, and it went to the point of totalitarianism.

    They put it in the movie, but it's just a question, not an answer. That's why I don't like it.
     
  5. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Yeah, Gary Kurtz is responsible for the weather in a difficult location he didn't pick and didn't want to remain in.

    I haven't read it in decades, but the MAKING OF book on EMP indicated that the shift on dollar/pound relations had the potential for hitting the budget enormously, and I think that was a big part of the jump as well. (am not inclined to look at the new EMPIRE making of, based on that guy's MAKING OF SW, which seems to ignore some sections of SW history that make the whole thing seem suspect to me.)

    I'm not a devotee of Mr Kurtz, though I do love RETURN TO OZ; his comments about SW being more inspiring to future astronauts than 2001 seemed downright scary as well as stupid, but the guy knew how to budget and he seemed to be able to say NO to GL and sometimes even make it stick -- which presumably stuck in the latter's craw.
     
  6. Lapis Exilis

    Lapis Exilis Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2004
    Location:
    Underground
    Hardly - TUC's attempts at being smart were incredibly pitiful.

    Indeed - and as you say even TOS wasn't doing anything truly radical, only radical for prime time network tv. But the "pre-chewed, mainstream "family safe" programming" has completely taken over the franchise to the point that no one is attempting to do something that would even challenge a bright adolescent at this point. "Challenge" is no longer a part of the equation.

    And, I'm sorry, but any "political" allegory in STiD boils down to "lying in order to court war is bad". Thanks for that news flash, folks.

    For those saying there's lots to chew on in STiD, please share what you think the movie presents. So far, the only thing I've heard is Kirk decides to disobey a blatantly unjust order to summarily execute a man, and takes him prisoner instead. As a few people have said - the movie managed to feel like really good Star Trek, for a minute, in the middle. Then it lost its footing and reverted to action movie tropes.

    I want to be clear here - I keep bringing up TMP because I think it's the only movie which managed to do what some of the best Trek episodes did, even though it had strytelling problems. Even TWOK was a personal story, not one with anything cerebral in it.
     
  7. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    Slate Magazine - Star Trek Into Due Process: The Sequel’s Message About Drones, Militarization, and Blowback

    The "Truther" interpretation isn't too far a reach, considering that Orci is kind of an out-there conspiracy theorist. Weirdness abounds.
     
  8. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Location:
    Ohio, USA
    We might see that counterpoint in the third movie.
     
  9. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2011
    I don't think it boils down to that at all. I think the speech by Marcus thinking he's justified in what he's doing is almost word-for-word what we have heard from people defending us having a counter-terrorism program that is ever-expanding. I'm going to post a link on here for you to watch:

    Frontline's Top Secret America: 9/11 to the Boston Bombings

    In it, it described the CIA acting as soldiers in Afghanistan, a black ops war, an ever-increasing infrastructure that is hidden from American sights, and CIA prisons called "black sites." It also describes the new security of the United States, cameras on every corner, computers that collect tons of information from the American people, and corporations now benefitting off this the way they used to benefit by making tanks. Where the infrastructure has failed in some cases, where it has very little oversight. It's vigilance of ordinary Americans that have prevented these terrorist attacks. It very costly in dollars as well.

    Watch that and then listen to Marcus' words again. You will hear the same arguments. That is something we need to address because it hasn't happened yet, but there is a potential for abuse of this power, and very little political will to do anything. And if that day ever comes, we could be in a very scary situation. All it takes is a Marcus-like individual at the controls.

    So what this movie tries to do is explore the anger after a terrorist attack. From Kirk's "let's get this bastard" attitude, not listening to his friends, to Marcus' actions, to Spock wanting to kill Khan for Kirk dying. It makes a speech at the end telling us, that a year later, we cannot act on that immediate anger or we could do something very dangerous. That's the material.

    Sorry if I'm getting off-topic, but it deserves a little background.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2013
  10. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    I would never have thought of that.. because I remember what dicks Khan's super men were in Space Seed, TWOK and the Eugenics War books :lol:

    However even if they are monumental aggressive lunatics this is a war that has nothing to do with them and they are potentially going to die.
    .
    .
    .
    Except as J.Allen initially brought up there's debate about that. Marcus may have been behind that attack all along.
     
  11. throwback

    throwback Captain Captain

    Joined:
    May 27, 2011
    When the first batch of Star Trek films were released, the majority of revenues generated were domestic, so the producers had the opportunity to explore contemporary topics with freedom. However, for this next batch, the revenue-generating source has moved to overseas, and the producers have to be more sensitive about the issues they cover. For instance, from the world of video games, the people had to change the attacking nation of China to North Korea because the corporations feared reprisal from the Chinese government.

    I think any discussion about this film has to keep this consideration front and center. This movie isn't made for an American audience; it is made for an international market. That market has different expectations and sensitivities. A focus group by Paramount determined that this market wanted a film that was less Trek and more action-adventure.
     
  12. Kruezerman

    Kruezerman Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2012
    Location:
    Meatloaf with Macaroni and Cheese
    Source? :vulcan:
     
  13. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2001
    Location:
    Sac, Ca
    Yes there was the one noble and right decision made by Kirk, but that's hardly enough to qualify this as a deep or "cerebral" Trek. The vast majority of the movie was devoted simply to nonstop, over the top action and summer movie spectacle.

    That's like saying Transformers was cerebral because Optimus Prime would occasionally stop to give a cheesy speech about honor and courage. ;)
     
  14. ConRefit79

    ConRefit79 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    I for one am so sick of so much darkness. It would be one thing if the events had happened to an alien culture. But Star Trek's shining examples, Star Fleet and the Federation have had so many bad apples lately. Make them good and try and help someone else over come issues we're facing today.
     
  15. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    I loved this movie and there were plenty of things to talk and think about in it but in no way would I call it cerebral.
     
  16. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Location:
    Ohio, USA
    I'm just going to trot this out again: :ouch:

    [​IMG]
     
  17. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    Dun dun DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN dun dun dun..
     
  18. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Location:
    Ohio, USA
    That's exactly what I was thinking when I posted it. :D
     
  19. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2005
    Do any of you know if Hendorff and the black security guard survived the battle on Kronos? I was trying to see if they showed up during the battle but I lost them and I didn't see them back on the Enterprise.
     
  20. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Location:
    Ohio, USA
    I don't think Hendorff survived. Of course, my only source on that is the novelization.