STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 18, 2013.

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Grade the movie...

  1. A+

    18.7%
  2. A

    20.7%
  3. A-

    13.1%
  4. B+

    11.1%
  5. B

    8.0%
  6. B-

    4.2%
  7. C+

    5.4%
  8. C

    5.1%
  9. C-

    3.5%
  10. D+

    1.5%
  11. D

    1.6%
  12. D-

    1.3%
  13. F

    5.7%
  1. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    So why can't the Hobus phenomenon be another fictional phenomenon that acts like a supernova in some respects but turns out not to be like all other supernovae?

    I'm not seeing the problem here.

    Did you really need a line in the film that says, "Captain, it acts like a supernova in some respects but it is not a true supernova"?
     
  2. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I've got to admit that I always hated that so much that in Tin Man I made a deliberate attempt to retcon it by having Data say "As no known natural phenomenon can travel at warp velocity, there are but two possibilities..."

    Yeah, I introduced a continuity error into canon on purpose. :lol:
     
  3. Lapis Exilis

    Lapis Exilis Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Please reread my post - I said quite clearly that STiD is definitely Star Trek. But it is Star Trek lacking anything cerebral. It's a perfectly fine story with perfectly good character motivations, but one of the things that tends to characterize the high water marks of Star Trek are the characters making decisions based on philosophical concerns. That, to me, is the defining difference between the universe of Star Trek and today's world - not that there's no poverty or war and everyone's happily living in Paradise, but that the characters engage with and are motivated by a higher order set of concerns, not simply personal and selfish ones like we regular mortals.

    OK - but thats an entirely different issue than what I was talking about. TMP has the characters making decisions because of their engagement with philosophical concerns. Abrams' Trek doesn't.

    Nothing, really. Except that it's part of a grand trend of skinning the symbols of various long running cultural tales and grafting them onto the same generic framework. Now we've got the Robert Downey Jr. Sherlock Holmes movies which are just Sherlock flavored action movies, and Star Trek flavored action movies -but they're all just Hollywood action movies in the end. That's disappointing to me because part of what I've admired about the Trek franchise is its ability to do new things while keeping a unique identity. I believe Ubik said upthread - by making Star Trek flavored action movies, Abrams is playing it safe, working within a formula. It's an entertaining formula, but it doesn't take any risks or do anything that surprises. Maybe it's a consequence of my age, but I've now seen so many this or that flavored action movies that I find action movies boring.

    Creating new Star Trek fans may be one of their concerns, but it's not one of mine. I'd vote for seeing the franchise take a risk and possibly fail, rather than retread ground we've seen a hundred times.
     
  4. ConRefit79

    ConRefit79 Captain Captain

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    We are those of us who felt let down by the prequels. I never claimed everyone who saw the originals disliked the prequels. And there were things I liked. But over all, they just didn't earn the same love.
     
  5. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Sigh.
     
  6. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If there was nothing to think about I wouldn't have posted 125 times in this thread.
     
  7. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    People have ALWAYS though JEDI was godawful, because it was and is.

    It's just that the prequels suck worse, except maybe 5 minutes or so of SITH.

    Still hasn't been a decent SW movie since EMPIRE IMO. Gary Kurtz is what brought balance to the Lucas, and w/o him it has been a lesser thing.
     
  8. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This movie is so explicitly political and anti-current American military policy that, having seen it twice now, I'm shocked that Paramount gave the go-ahead on the script. It's more daring in that respect than anything Star Trek has presented in nearly forty-five years.
     
  9. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    Plenty are posting about missed opportunities in the film, so there's apparently a lot to think about; it just is not about what the filmmakers did, but failed to do.
     
  10. ConRefit79

    ConRefit79 Captain Captain

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    I posted earlier that Alcatraz must be the stand in for GITMO.
     
  11. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Kirk refusing to follow orders to stand off and fire torpedoes at Harrison, because he believed that Harrison deserved a trial, was precisely him "making decisions based on philosophical concerns", as well as him engaging with and being "motivated by a higher order set of concerns, not simply personal and selfish ones like we regular mortals."
     
  12. Joel_Kirk

    Joel_Kirk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This.
     
  13. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    :techman:

    I've wanted to post about some of that but I don't want to get embroiled in the shitstorm that will ensue.
     
  14. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    If SF-as-allegory is even a fraction as potent now as it was apparently for Serling and others decades back, then they'd've been better off going much further, rather than just paying lip service to present concerns over US excesses and failings, which is a safe and trendy thing to do, especially for international markets that already think of us in this way.

    A really serious and massive false flag op like flying a starship into a downtown crash in order to generate support for attacking somebody not actually responsible for the incident would have really knocked the stars off the UFP banner (and it probably would have fallen more in lines with what I've read from Orci on occasion in terms of his own views.)
     
  15. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    trevanian, reading this forum for years I don't think as a non-american that is even remotely "safe and trendy" to pay lip service or discuss these matters.

    I think Section 31 could provide a lot of opportunities to write bravely about government. I also think I don't care if Star Trek ever bothers to ramp it up to that because I don't watch Star Trek to think about US politics.
     
  16. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Ditto. :techman:

    But this film certainly challenges us to think. Therefore is "cerebral".
     
  17. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's not - don't let anyone mislead you. It sort of was, when Dubya was still in office. Now, we nominate Zero Dark Thirty for Oscars. :lol:

    Calling simple minded stuff like ST 6 "allegory" and pretending that it was thoughtful or observant is what seems to pass for "cerebral" where Star Trek is concerned. I'm not sure that there's ever been much in Trek that would challenge anyone more mature than a bright adolescent, but the original series was produced in a politically turbulent time and if the politics of the show were simple at least they were a little bit out in front of what we were accustomed to seeing in prime time. That hasn't been true for decades, and there's certainly nothing in the modern Trek tv shows that wasn't pretty well pre-chewed and considered mainstream "family safe" programming before Paramount would let it out the door. The producers learned to self-censor.
     
  18. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    PRIVATE LITTLE WAR does come up more than occasionally on the TOS board, and it isn't because of the curvy chick, it is because of the parallels with what was going on in the world - that, and the fact that it has an ending that resonates because it actually advocates what could be perceived as an utterly subversive action.

    But that's not for you - so much for TREK as allegory. Guess they better stick with safe subjects like saving the whales.
     
  19. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Or how about taking race relations, taking a black man and a white man, split them both in half, and put them back together to make hay out of race riots.

    A lot of the political commentary comes from history as well. And that being the case, and history is repeated, it remains topical in multiple environments. Using sociology, as they did in TNG, allows for an exploration of general concepts that can be applied to several different societies, times in history. Just look at DS9 and its treatise on oppression, terrorism (pre-September 11th), and religion.

    I like to have that layer to Star Trek, and I was surprised after '09 that JJ-Trek tried that. I thought he thought it was "too high-brow." I just don't think it was done well. But an attempt was made and they should be applauded for trying to make a movie that is more than just entertaining, but makes us think.

    It simply will be watched more times by the general public because it has that layer than it would be to just be entertaining. The best art does this. And on occasion, it sparks a national conversation.
     
  20. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It was done a hell of a lot better than painting two guys half-white and half-black, that much is certain. :lol:

    The guys making these movies now sure don't have anything to fear from comparison to most of oldTrek.