STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 18, 2013.

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Grade the movie...

  1. A+

    18.7%
  2. A

    20.7%
  3. A-

    13.1%
  4. B+

    11.1%
  5. B

    8.0%
  6. B-

    4.2%
  7. C+

    5.4%
  8. C

    5.1%
  9. C-

    3.5%
  10. D+

    1.5%
  11. D

    1.6%
  12. D-

    1.3%
  13. F

    5.7%
  1. Ubik

    Ubik Commodore Commodore

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    Well, sure, of course it's subjective, but I honestly do believe there is some level of objectivity when it comes to analyzing a work of art's level of ambition. TOS, TNG, and DS9 all feel very different from one another, but they are all masterful shows in their own right because they all have high ambition to mean something, to say something, to do something new. Voyager and Enterprise were largely failures not due simply to individual tastes - there is a factual lack of originality and ambition in the storytelling of those two shows.

    Likewise, Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock, Voyage Home, Undiscovered Country, and First Contact, to somewhat varying degrees, are all more or less agreed to be the best of the bunch, due to their desire to tell a new and interesting kind of story.

    Now, Abrams has changed the "feel" of Star Trek once again, just as the creators did when TNG started, and DS9, and etc - but this time, much like with the creation of Voyager and Enterprise, there is not an equally high level of ambition to do something thematically interesting or risky. He's good at the entertaining, but he lacks the will to risk. God forbid he make a movie that tries to do something we've not seen in Star Trek before on a storytelling level. It's not that he's incapable (I assume.) It's that he doesn't have the interest.
     
  2. Brent

    Brent Admiral Admiral

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    J is right, they are using the "It doesn't feel like Star Trek" to invalidate the movies as being Star Trek at all. Which is factually an incorrect thing to say.

    The feel of Star Trek has evolved over time, and a feeling does not validate or invalidate a piece of work as a Star Trek IP.
     
  3. ConRefit79

    ConRefit79 Captain Captain

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    And there is nothing wrong with that. After all many people who grew up with Star Wars felt like Lucas raped their childhood with the prequels.
     
  4. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    It's called moving at the speed of plot. Star Trek does it all the time. Actually, just about every movie does it to some degree.

    Yes, because these ships are on par with 1960s technology. :wtf:
     
  5. Brent

    Brent Admiral Admiral

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    p.s. and it was 3 days for Apollo, just to be anal :p
     
  6. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    Now you're being crazy! It would take a covered wagon years to reach the Moon, if it could reach it at all! Surely you can see that this doesn't make sense! ;)
     
  7. ConRefit79

    ConRefit79 Captain Captain

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    All they have to do is film something to show more time has passed.

    The ship wasn't moving under its own power from what I saw. It simply started to fall from gravity and the shockwave of the torpedo explosion and moved from the moon to earth in minutes. :wtf:
     
  8. Brent

    Brent Admiral Admiral

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    Powerful fictional future technology there, wouldn't wanna mess with it

    I just accept that it is that powerful, since it is a made up thing afterall
     
  9. ConRefit79

    ConRefit79 Captain Captain

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    Well, we're going to have to agree to disagree. For me this ends up like the same stupid Hobus super nova, which travels faster than light, plot device from the last film.
     
  10. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    Not everything needs spelled out.

    What exactly are you looking for? The movie explains how the Enterprise becomes caught in Earth's gravity, and that they're close enough to be pulled downward.

    If you don't like it, blame it on Psi 2000.
     
  11. Brent

    Brent Admiral Admiral

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    In Star Trek Online, just as an aside, the Hobus Super Nova explosion is revealed to have traveled through Subspace, hence how it got to where it was. In the game, it's a plot that an advanced alien species instituted to shake up things. They are pulling the strings in the game, won't reveal who it is, spoilers. Anyway, the Hobus thing traveled through Subspace is the answer to that.
     
  12. ConRefit79

    ConRefit79 Captain Captain

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    Please be happy you can enjoy it and stop trying to convert those that don't like it for whatever reason. At least I went to see it, despite my better judgment.
     
  13. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    You gotta love how the Veridian star appears to darken from Veridian III, just a few seconds after Soran's missile is launched.
     
  14. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    I'm not trying to convert anyone, I just get curious when people find phantom reasons to dislike something that has done them no harm.
     
  15. Lapis Exilis

    Lapis Exilis Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Because the characters within the stories don't engage with them. They are not in-story concerns, but fan concerns in terms of comparing one set of stories and the character interpretation presented in them, and another set of stories and the character interpretation offered as alternative. Yes, the two interpretations are thinly linked by some time travel hokum, but Kirk isn't making decisions within the story because he's thinking about who he might have been had the Kelvin not been destroyed and how his fate was changed by the different set of circumstances he grew up in versus the set of circumstances Kirk Prime grew up in - thus Nature vs. Nurture might make an interesting fan debate but it in no way affects what happens in STiD.

    On the other hand in TMP, the climax of the movie hinges on Deckard realizing that he can achieve a new level of consciousness by allowing V'Ger to merge with his "creator" (i.e. a feeling human being). The philosophical questions of machine intelligence, the nature of sentient maturity, and the pivotal role of emotion in consciousness drive the story action.

    Abrams' Trek is fun, entertaining and looks good - but it's not in the same ballpark. I think one review said it best when it dubbed the film "a Star Trek flavored action movie".

    That doesn't make it "not Star Trek", since most of the movies more or less have the same issue. It doesn't make it bad Star Trek. But it definitely doesn't make it as good of Star Trek as it could be. One of the primary things that makes Star Trek, Star Trek, as opposed to any other space opera or SF, simply isn't there. But since Star Trek can exist as more generic space opera, and often has, this movie qualifies.

    Doesn't mean I can't still hope for and miss that other thing, because it's the thing that always put Star Trek on top of the heap when it comes to filmed SF, at least in my book.
     
  16. ConRefit79

    ConRefit79 Captain Captain

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    Yeah, that was stupid and I caught it to. Not to mention the missile travels from the planet in < a minute under chemical propulsion. I know Trek is full of goofs like that. This is just one scene in this film that irked me.
     
  17. ConRefit79

    ConRefit79 Captain Captain

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    They're not phantom reasons. And it's difficult to explain. It's too fast and childish for me. And it tries too hard to win us over with quick references to past Trek They've made these characters more like 21st century people. Kirk is an immature cocky fly boy. And his death is as meaningless to me as it should be to Spock. Spock seems to have suffered from a Trellium addiction cause he cannot keep his emotions in check. And he is in a relationship with a subordinate and a one time a cadet. He has the gall to bring Kirk up for cheating? Bones is being made a caricature of the original. Scotty reminds me nothing of the original. He seems like a running gag. The ship is ugly as..... The effects are too much like Star Wars for me. And I'm talking new Star Wars. It's all flash and no substance to me.
     
  18. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    Sounds like you don't like the way your chicken tastes. Granted, it's a steak, but that's your right.
     
  19. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Huh?

    So it can only be true Star Trek if the characters realise something and not the audience?

    Decker.

    And one of the biggest criticisms about the story of ST:TMP is that it should have been Kirk or Spock making guest-star Decker's climactic sacrifice to save the Earth from V'ger.

    Well, I hate action movies, but I love JJ Abrams' "Star Trek" movies.

    What's so terrible about "Star Trek flavored action movies"? They create new fans of the ongoing franchise, just as ST IV (a "Star Trek flavored" comedic movie) did. CBS already reported that the 2009 film caused huge spikes in sales of all "Star Trek" DVD boxed sets: all of the movies and all of the TV series, as new fans explored what had come before.
     
  20. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    ^ Yep. First thing I wanted to do after seeing ST09 and STiD, was to watch the TOS episodes on Netflix, because I closely associate them due to the similar methods of story telling.
     

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