Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 18, 2013.
What prison can hold 73 Eugenics supermen and women?
They should strand Khan and his people on an uninhabited planet.
Send them to be reconditioned along with Garth.
I bet the Ceti Alpha system would do, if Star Fleet would bother to monitor it a bit this time.
Also make sure Khan has his Moby Dick novel with him.
I gave it a C grade. The over all film was okay, but it had a lot of problems. One of my two biggest problems was the death scene. It just didn't work and took me out of the film. The other one being Spock this time around. I just don't think the acting was what it was in the last film, and in the last film Zachary's Spock was perfect!
There were things that I liked, like teamwork, Kirk and Uhura's transporter friendship scene, McCoy's "Are you out of your cornfed mind!" lol, Sulu having a chance at the captain's chair for a minute, and the small attempt at S/U, also liked that Kirk listened to Scotty when he said not to use the torpedoes, Pike, Nimoy's cameo, Cumberbatch was nice, and Chris Pine really did a good job this time emoting (he did a nice job last time, but this time was even better).
That's about all I've got right now.
So he says. I see no reason to believe him.
Besides, the thing with the Ba'ku is exactly the sort of operation Section 31 would pull. The real Federation would never stoop that low. It's above that sort of thing.
Wow. I'm seeing a problem now with my beloved Section 31. It gets Starfleet off the hook from any horrible, non-evolved thing they ever do because it can just be blamed on being really Section 31. That is not good.
So Kirk and Khan are now blood brothers.
Saw it with the family last night in IMAX 3D. During the warp core scene, the guy sitting next to me started to chuckle. I poked him in the ribs, causing him to spill his 48 oz. drink onto the woman in the row ahead of him. She screamed and sent popcorn flying for six feet around her, then stood up, turned around, and slapped the guy in the face. Now he's mad. He turns on me. My youngest daughter on the other side of me yells, "Leave my dad alone!" and bites him on the arm. It got weird after that.
THERE MAY BE MORE DETAIL ABOUT THE ENDING BELOW (SPOILERS) THAN SOME OF YOU WHO HAVEN'T SEEN THE MOVIE YET WOULD WANT, EVEN IF YOU'RE ALREADY MUCKING ABOUT IN A THREAD WITH SPOILERS.
This is now my favorite "Star Trek" movie. Number one, ba-by! My wife, not a Trek fan, called it, "very good" more than once. That's a lot like a Red Sox fan saying, "I'm glad the Yankees are playing well, this year." My two daughters, who felt dragged there, were laughing at the laugh lines, and enjoyed the spectacle. My ten year-old told me she liked it before I could even ask. Scotty stole the show for her. Abrams may not have created three new fans, but I won't be "dragging" anyone to the next Trek movie.
I won't repeat views already posted by those who've seen it, but I will say this about two of the more controversial, or at least contentious things about the ending:
-- I think Kirk's death scene was BETTER than Spock's in TWOK. It conveyed real emotion by both characters. Real fear. A real sense of helplessness. Real anger and pain. Spock's death scene seems emotionally flat compared to it. Did it borrow from that scene? Yes. Was it "borrowing" to the point of plagiarism? No. There were maybe two or three verbatum lines from TWOK, and that was it. Spock knows what Kirk is going through because of his mind meld with Pike, and it angers him beyond belief that he can't comfort his friend at this moment. He channels that anger back to Khan. The theather was silent during the scene. No snorts. No giggles. No sounds of facepalming.
-- The way that Kirk was brought back to life was perfectly plausible. It was not magic as I expected from what I heard on these boards. It wasn't just a shot of Khan's blood and he's up and about. It was a long and involved medical process of restoring his life then restoring his body and mind. (The way Walt Disney wanted it to happen to him, some day -- in other words, there are people who think such things are possible.) The process took two months before Kirk even regained consciousness. And just so no one takes the entire thing too seriously, McCoy's questions to him when Kirk wakes up are priceless.
The ending was great. Pine finally gets to deliver the monolog. The other thing was the ending was thematically appropriate. Mercy was shown to Khan. Starfleet's response to these horrible events was not the militarization of Starfleet (which was perhaps even justifiable with cause, now), but instead, the Enterprise is restored and begins the first five year mission of deep space exploration. Despite the terror, despite the danger, despite the years of rebuilding and healing that will still have to be done, the ideal and pursuit of exploration goes on as Starfleet's primary mission. That's not optimistic? That's not "Star Trek"?
Damn fine movie. Damn fine.
The Kirk/Khan slash fanfic writers have won! NOOOOOOOOOOO!
It does make him more of a woobie, though, which is good for fangirls and fanfiction writers everywhere.
But the decision is kind of WTF and I kept wondering why the hell everyone and their dog gets a trial, but Cumberkhan doesn't. Because he's TEH EVULZ. He did save Kirk's butt and got shot in the back for no good reason, but he's evulz and deserves to serve time as a (super)human popsicle.
I also think that demoting Kirk for exposing those natives to the Enterprise and accidentally creating new religion may have been a bit harsh.
However, seeing as they promoted him to captain after saving the Earth in the previous film, maybe that's how Starfleet rolls in JJ-verse.
I didn't mind them lifting moments from The Wrath of Khan, and really, it's only about two minutes worth. It wasn't as if they copied everything. But, I think I would have gone back to the original episode.
What I wouldn't give to see Karl and Bennedict play this moment out.
The people complaining about it really should rewatch TWOK now...
Upon first viewing it, I groaned because they felt so forced. Seeing it the second time, it wasn't as bad. I didn't mind. And again, it takes up, what, a minute, two minutes out of a two hour and ten minute movie?
Maybe Khan did get a trial - we just never saw it.
Perhaps the next film opens with him being thawed for trial... and escaping...
While he's crushing Marcus's head, he yells that Marcus should've let him sleep. All he wants is for his crew to be safe and for him to be with them.
My guess would be in a type of "plea bargain" (best analogy I can come up with right now), Khan basically got his wish. He's with his crew, and his crew is safe. As I said above, it's really an act of mercy when you think about it.
Yeah, it's an odd moment. I saw a late showing with some friends. We all love this stuff, we all had a bit of a WTF? reaction to that part of the film.
But... that doesn't make it bad, necessarily. It's something I'll have to digest, and a second viewing may help.
On the one hand, it feels a little stale, going over old material like that, so closely, especially as the film's emotional core (it's 2 minutes, sure, but it's also the centerpiece of the film's main story). On the other hand, it can be seen as an original creative choice, and an interesting use of the alternate universe idea from the first film. I can't recall seeing anything quite like it in a film like this.
I'm not sure I would really want to see it become a habit, with each film being built around a big "déjà vu" moment. But in small doses... maybe.
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