STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 18, 2013.

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Grade the movie...

  1. A+

    18.7%
  2. A

    20.7%
  3. A-

    13.1%
  4. B+

    11.1%
  5. B

    8.0%
  6. B-

    4.2%
  7. C+

    5.4%
  8. C

    5.1%
  9. C-

    3.5%
  10. D+

    1.5%
  11. D

    1.6%
  12. D-

    1.3%
  13. F

    5.7%
  1. gornsky

    gornsky Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    I thought there were a number of occasions where this happened. For instance, Kirk is all gung-ho to follow his orders and "track the bastard down", despite the fact that both Spock and Scotty and to some extent even McCoy "lecture" him that he's wrong.

    Spock tells him that hunting someone down and killing them without a trial is against Starfleet directives and morally wrong. Further he tells Kirk he needs to take a little time to think about it to arrive at this conclusion himself. Spock seems to have faith that once Kirk calms down, he will do the right thing. Scotty tells him that they are supposed to be explorers, not military personnel. Kirk is still travelling on the momentum of grief until he sits down in the Captain's chair to inform the crew of their mission. Maybe it was the extra weight of the responsibility of the chair itself, or maybe the echos of Pike's accusations that he was not ready for it finally settle, but almost in mid-sentence Kirk has a change of heart and informs the crew that he will personally go down to Kronos, capture "Harrison" and return him to Earth to face trial.

    Is that not exactly a character stepping back from emotions to show how you should respond? (if indeed this is some mandatory requirement of a Trek story.)

    I don't know about all this "crew lecturing" and why it's so important, but a number of characters do exactly this.

    Pike gives Kirk the ultimate "lecture" at the beginning of the movie. Remember? 'You think the rules don't apply to you because you disagree with them. You use luck to justify playing God. One day you'll get yourself and everyone under your command killed. You don't respect The Chair because you're not ready for it."

    Again, Spock lectures Kirk on the morality of what amounts to a government-sanctioned assassination. Scotty lectures Kirk on the merits of exploration over war. Spock lectures Uhura on making assumptions about someone's feelings. Kirk lectures Spock on elevating slavish adherence to rules over friendship. How many more "moral lessons" do you want the characters to impart?

    I thought the theme of the movie was quite apparent and was referenced in a variety of ways, driving the point home strongly.

    You didn't think her blood-curdling scream was a reaction?

    He doesn't have the years of experience Prime Kirk had, that's true, and he feels that lack acutely. But Kirk has intuition and smarts and, as he calls it, his "gut feeling". These attributes have almost always served him well.

    No, it's not really explained in words, but I felt their burgeoning affection was apparent in a number of their scenes. When Kirk tells Spock he'll miss him. When, even having been assigned to other ships, their eyes seek out each other during the Harrison briefing (not in a homoerotic way, just because each has become used to getting the others' feedback). Kirk's hand on Spock's shoulder after Pike's death. Their effective and often complementary working relationship, despite their philosophical hurdles. Spock's belief in Kirk's reaching the right decision on his own. Spock's familiarity with Kirk's deflecting his valid arguments with name-calling. Kirk's seeking Spock's approval when he finally makes the right decision to arrest rather than obliterate Khan. Spock's ability to accurately guess Kirk's decisions without words, based only on his familiarity with Kirk's thought processes.

    Really, I thought all these things were very clearly telegraphed in the movie.

    Seriously? I thought the whole movie was one character-building scene after another. Obviously I was getting a lot more out of it.

    Giving up your life for your crew without a second thought is selfish? You have awfully high standards then.:confused:

    But that's the thing about strong emotions. They evade your control.

    Okay, well, at least somebody impressed you.

    NOW for the nit-picks? O.M.G. I thought they WERE the nit-picks!:lol:
     
  2. Irishman

    Irishman Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm still on the fence about the broadside tubes. In the old galleon days they made sense because most combat happened close, and a cannon fired a dumb projectile.

    The torpedoes in Star Trek are smart, in the sense that they can be aimed in various ways (preprogrammed to hit a target a certain way). I think the only advantage of the torp launchers shown in STID is the sheer number of projectiles that can be fired off simultaneously. We've gone from 2 front and 1 rear in the prime universe, to 2 front, 1 rear, and 6 on each side.
     
  3. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Kirk doesn't listen. He goes full-boar into seeking revenge. Scotty is mentioned in my review. And his consequence for speaking out? He's kicked off the Enterprise.

    Well, that theory is all good until he decides to beat the crap out of Harrison on Kronos. Super strength is the only reason he doesn't kill him. Then he proceeds to tell Harrison, full of rage, that the only reason he isn't ending him is because is "allowing it." He's playing god. He then uses Harrison after he proves himself to be competent in his information. That's what keeps Harrison alive. And then he orders his death, or at least subdued on the Vengance. Military, indeed.

    Every one of those characters, when they are tested, in action, gives the same response. And I covered that in the previous post. For instance, when Spock is tested, his motivation for getting Khan is not to eliminate the threat, that is secondary, to seeking revenge for Kirk dying. Uhura stops him from killing him out of vengeance simply because they need his blood. Spock sought revenge. I don't care what he said earlier in the film, when tested, he came unglued. There was no variation on this theme. We never saw an appropriate response. One is what is on paper, the other is experience. Their training said "this is bad," but when they had the chance to learn why, they just tried to kill as much as they could.

    As for Kirk and Spock, there is no reason for it given. They just love each other, nothing hinted as to why. No explanation even as they are seeing each other in Kirk's last moments. We see the love, we don't see why. I want to know why they bonded.
     
  4. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Looks like Starfleet has been arming up (in the wake of Nero).
     
  5. Austin 3:16

    Austin 3:16 Captain Captain

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    I saw it yesterday in IMAX and I loved it. Better than the first movie!
     
  6. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    More on the movie; the new Imax theater was awesome but the theater was surprisingly empty. as I left I saw that more people came in, but I saw ST09 3 times and the theater was always full. Perhaps this is not a good way to gauge.

    Loved Imax 3D...not sure 2D will ever be enough now. lol

    I'm going to see the movie again Sunday. Imax it is. Fandango reports 55% of people are going to see it more than once.

    I forgot to mention I loved the ending.... Loved it... the crew prepping for a 5 year mission!? great stuff.... cool bridge crew with Carol and an android on board.
     
  7. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored Co-Founder of ISIS Moderator

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    I didn't look at it in the sense of delivering side by side broadsides like galleons, I thought of it more like the high capacity vertical launch missile cells on modern destroyers, cruisers, subs, and so forth. If the torpedoes are capable of maneuvering to hit the target, why restrict them to a couple of forward or rearward facing tubes with a limited fire rate when you can have dozens of redundant launchers each capable of being loaded individually? That way you have a much higher rate of fire, and if some launchers are incapacitated, you have several more still operational.

    On the flipside of that, and going back to your original point, if you are in an up close and personal battle with a nearby ship (which is not realistic in actual space battle terms, but fits within Star Trek), having fore, aft, port, and starboard facing torpedo tubes allows you to fire in all (horizontal) directions (unless they have vertical tubes too) while requiring little maneuvering by the torpedoes, which means they can conserve fuel and attack at higher speeds since they haven't been turning to reach the target.
     
  8. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    When I saw the film again tonight I noticed that the archive is called The Kelvin Archive, that was cool.
     
  9. SalvorHardin

    SalvorHardin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yep

    [​IMG]
     
  10. topas

    topas Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Must be some Kelvin-fixation on the writers' side. One of the main characters of Fringe (same writers/producers as Star Trek) used to run a company named Kelvin Genetics.
     
  11. SalvorHardin

    SalvorHardin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I believe Kelvin is the name of Abrams' grandfather. The registry of the USS Kelvin was his birthday.
     
  12. cbspock

    cbspock Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    San Antonio, TX
    I have seen the film 2 times so far, once as a double feature with the the first movie, then in 3D IMAX last night. I liked the film. I thought the first half worked better than the last half. While it was cool to see Old Spock, they could have done without it. It just serves to ramp up how dangerous Khan is if you couldn't already tell. Reversing the TWOK engine room scene was a risk. I thought it actually worked pretty well given the story they were telling, although it felt more like Kirk saving the Enterprise in Generations, then Spock saving the Enterprise in Wrath of Khan. The use of the famous "Khan" line was a risk, it could have played as a joke line since that what is has become in pop culture. I thought it worked in the scene, but it could have gone the other way.

    I really enjoyed the Pike / Kirk / Spock scenes in the beginning of the film. Also with Pike's death, Kirk's reaction was like his reaction in Obsession when they encountered the same creature that attacked the USS Farragut, and killed another Captain who Kirk looked up to and Kirk was determined not to make the same mistake this time around.

    The Budweiser engineering didn't bother me as much this time around.


    I'm looking forward to Star Trek 3, for the next story I hope they decide to explore new territory and not re-work an old mission into a story. If they want to make an old episode the pre-title opening that would be a cool callback but the story itself needs to be a new adventure.


    One question, where was shuttle bay 2??? Looks like the ship left from the side of the secondary hull??

    -Chris
     
  13. shatastrophic

    shatastrophic Commander Red Shirt

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    When I saw it we got in line and such but when they finally sat us I noticed the theater wasn't full either. It wasn't until the movie started that it was getting filled in, then I read some dumb article on IMDB that stated its wed opening was tepid and that half of the gross was IMAX 3D. In 09' there was way more people at the opening. I think the weekend will be better though. I loved it and am seeing it again tomorrow, repeat visits will help too.
     
  14. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Jan 15, 2002
    A- Really enjoyed this one! Mostly positives. The characters were great. Unlike ST09, I can really buy into them as the characters they are portraying (except perhaps Scotty). There were great moments between the characters too.

    The story was great. Definitely lots of interesting things going on. The SFx, as expect, were superb. No problems there.

    I was expecting to really enjoy Cumberbatch, and I did. However, all the comparisons to TWOK really reminded me that I just preferred Montablans (sp?) portrayal of Khan over Cumberbatch's.

    There were so many references to the original series, and movies, that they definitely treated the franchise with respect.

    In the end, this movie was probably the best it could be with the rebooted characters. I don't mean that as a slight at all. I was impressed with how much I could connect with them after just 2 movies.

    However, it's just hard to compete with characters/actors that we've watched for decades vs just 2 movies. Some of the meaningful moments just meant less because with just a few hours of screen time, I was less invested in the characters.

    So, great movie! Really enjoyed it! Can't quite compete with the best of the non-reboot movies through no fault of their own.

    Mr Awe
     
  15. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yep, totally agree with this! :techman:

    Mr Awe
     
  16. cbspock

    cbspock Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Maybe the Enterprise had the broadside torpedo bays as part of the military build up that was happening in Starfleet. Will be interesting to see if they are still there in the next movie.


    -Chris
     
  17. Amasov

    Amasov Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm glad I'm not the only one who hoped for that line to come out. The moment just seemed so appropriate.
     
  18. Chu'lak

    Chu'lak Lieutenant

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    I thought BC was terrific as Khan. I loved him more than Montalban in Star Trek 2 but not as much as in Space Seed. He got to DO something. In Wrath of Khan, he spends the entire film on the Reliant quoting Milton and ancient Klingon proverbs.

    In Space Seed he was ruthless and cunning and wasn’t afraid to have someone slap Uhura around and torture and kill.

    But his weakness remains the same. In Space Seed Kirk got the upper hand when he beat Khan senseless with a pipe. Here, despite Khan’s awesome skull crushing finishing move, Spock pulls a metal handled off of the floating garbage scow and beats Khan in the face to get the upper hand.
     
  19. Amasov

    Amasov Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I still think Karl Urban is being sickeningly underutilized.
     
  20. cbspock

    cbspock Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I was really hoping for that away as well.


    -Chris