Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 18, 2013.
Oh ok.. thank you!
So much happened in the movie that sometimes specifics get lost.
That was my take on it. Unlike what someone else posted, I don't feel that he did it just to experience what someone felt when dying. Having done that though, of course it would impact him, but he wouldn't have done it other than to comfort Pike.
Pike was more at ease when Spock melded with him. It helped him to die, if that is possible.
No problem. I absorbed the vast majority of the film's details on the first run through. The problem so far has been keeping it all in order in my head, since there's so much to take in. Also, the slow fading.
I'm going to see it again tomorrow night and post my thoughts, but I must say, there was one thing that disappointed me. I was hoping Khan would come face to face with Chekov and say something like, "You.. I will never forget your face."
Just as a sort of in-joke to the fans. I would have loved that.
I would have preferred that to the fourth wall red shirt joke. Good idea.
Oh man. I came... I saw... I freaking LOVED THIS MOVIE!
Better than the ST09, I'm saying it right now.
This is my list of gripes, and they're minor:
- Spock's "KHAN" didn't quite work. Their heart was in the right place and it was a believable situation, but it all comes down to Zachary Quinto's voice. The Shat's "KHAAAN!!" works so well because you can really hear the rage, what with his voice breaking like a thrash metal singer. Zach's voice just wasn't up to the task.
- Not enough Anton Yelchin.
- Alice Eve's undies scene makes sense in hindsight, but it was totally gratuitous. Not that I'm complaining about seeing Alice Eve in her more "au naturel" look.
- After so many years of warp being a fixed speed scale (yes, I know, only most of the time, but they were usually consistent about it in the show, especially post-TNG), "warp at the speed of plot" still irks me.
That's pretty much all I can think of. A lot of the gripes I've read about have explanations that are actually discussed in the movie. I've also read a lot of people had problems with the story and pacing. I had zero issues with either, personally. I never had trouble following what was going on. Does a lot of stuff happen? Yes. Was I ever lost? No.
Again, LOVED it. I'll definitely be seeing it at least a couple more times before it leaves the theater.
So finally after 4 long years, the opening of STID has arrived. I never could have expected STID to come close to ST09, which is genuinely one of the better SF efforts of the last few decades, and one of the best if not the best space based movie ever. My greatest question after watching the movie was whether to give it an A or A+. The deciding factor was that I had to weigh in whether or not I thought it was better than the first JJ film...and I came to the conclusion it is roughly equal, almost impossible to differentiate, with possibly a slight edge to STID. Here's how I felt:
Contrary to what many people have been saying, I thought the second half of the film was superior. I was enjoying myself for the first half, but at that point I still hadn't reached the overwhelming feeling that it was standing out over ST09 or that it was great.
The "teaser": Although not as good as ST09's this is an excellent way to start the movie, if they are not yet on the 5 year mission, then these missions Kirk and Co have been going on are fulfilling the sense of adventure quite nicely, and doing some real exploration. Explosions in Imax 3D were fierce, the sound was a real strength in this format and alone would warrant seeing it with this presentation.
Kirk's comeuppance: Loved the dialogue here, Pike was his usual fantastic self. Kirk knew all along he wasn't secretly supposed to save any alien planets, and that is a plot point I hadn't seen spoiled. I find this to reflect well on Kirk, since it adds a texture from the TOS Kirk..and goes behind simply friendship with Spock as a reason to save the planet.
So Kirk isn't ready for the captaincy...you could say that a lot of critics of ST09 also thought so, but with Pine's central and dominating performance in this movie he really goes beyond what we saw in ST09 and onto a new level...sure he starts off brash, but there is a crux point later in the movie where he basically lays out his humility bare. Very successful part of the story.
Admrial Marcus: OK I'm biased, I Love Peter Weller. His character is innocuous enough early on, but he adds grit to the role as usual. I did find it a bit too easy that he let Kirk and Co go on a mission to kill Harrison. I didn't really see the reasoning why Kirk could have killed him with drones and got away with it anymore than any other Starfleet officer.
The assassination: Well done, though I could quibble at why all the captains by some sort of protocol had to meet after the terror attack. I wondered before I saw the movie if it was Kirk who managed to put a stop to the attack and he did, which I thought was good for the movie.
Kronos: So this is the English spelling of it. I don't mind the Transwarp beaming, certainly is a nice thread carried over from ST09, though it made me wonder why there weren't more of them. I'll simply assume that Khan as the developer of weapons and tactics probably kept an ace or two up his sleeve.
The Klingons: Never have I seen them more "cool" or more dangerous. Loved every part of the sequence. Enjoyed seeing a Klingon world affected by what I assume is Praxis. Assumed that the Klingons are at a crossroads and may have only a few decades of life to their homeworld and may be desperate to go elsewhere. The devastation also fit in nicely with the plot. The FX here were incredible.
Harrison: Fantastic fight sequence, though the crew should have been much more suspicious of his motives here.
Khan: So he's revealed. I didnt like this idea months ago, but as I've said I can consider it two ways now: As a variation on the new timeline of the old, much like the comics are twisting old events of TOS, and also Khan as a nemesis for Kirk much like Blofeld on James Bond, and Joke on Batman. There is no real reason the writers can't parallel events from the old timeline. Only preconceived notions about Khan that are now invalid would run this part of the story for anyone.
Torpedoes: OK not a bad way to hide your crew, but wouldnt it have been easier to put them all in one place? Most of the scenes with them were cool. I liked the scene on the planet as they were working on it.
Scotty: He was utilized really well here, both in sharing the writer's message and the amount of time and usefulness compared to Doohan. He basically saved the Enterprise before Kirk did.
Vengeance: Terrific hiding place. Section 31 is a welcome surprise to this universe, and the construction of a pure warship was an ominous undertone. It does reinforce Starfleet as being less military and more multi-functional, though perhaps getting moreso now as time goes along.
TWOK: This film isnt even remotely a remake, it had a few scenes that were clearly homages and supported the parallel-but-different timeline. I don't see why this bothers anyone. It was actually a bit trippy to see Kirk and Spock exchange familiar lines with each other.
Ending: Thought the temporary truce with Khan worked quite well, as well as the eventual betrayal. The various set-piece action sequences were really impressive, and the solidity of this new Star Trek world is a wonder to behold.
So in conclusion: The movie was probably less exuberant and funny, but the plot really demanded that. So while people and critics may not come out of it feeling the excitement and fun was the same, I think we got a little more depth in exchange.
One other nit that just occurred to me
Would have been nice to see Karl urban in exchange with nimoy, he was standing right next to Quinto during the scene
Not really a nit I suppose but would have warmed my heart
Would have also liked to have seen Weller in his robocop helmet
The 'warp at speed of plot' issue didnt bother me. I don't remember it being said how long it takes between destinations, but I just accepted that it took longer than what was shown on screen. Same as tng era shows and the TOS movies, it would be said it would take, say, 48hrs to one destination or more direct film quote, 3 days to Vulcan for instance. Yet, all we ever saw was just before or after arrival. So I explained in my head the same way.
Still, least the turbo lifts have slowed a bit. =D
I gave this one a B+. Mainly because in my mind it ties with STXI, which is an automatic deduction for failing to top the first one. Also, because I didn't much care for the new engine room, but that's mainly because I spent some time playing through Star Trek on the X-box and was frankly expecting something alot more spacious and open like the LHC or something.
I kinda disagree. If you remember how that scene played out, my inner monolog sounded exactly like this:
"Oh, c'mon, that's a bit much! I know you're trying to do Wrath of Khan in reverse, but are you really gonna have Spock try to copy th--OH SHIT! WTF?!"
The reason it works is because people who saw Wrath of Khan (that is, every Trek fan ever) is sort of conditioned to think of the engine room scene as the emotional winding-down of an otherwise extremely tense cliffhanger ending.
In Into Darkness, it's the last quiet moment in the film before a fucking battleship falls out of the sky and suddenly Spock is running through San Francisco with a fresh can of whupass in his hand.
Yes. Yes it was.
I'm seeing that warp appears to be pretty damn fast in this universe, and more importantly, doesn't seem to work anything like the technologies we're used to. One thing in particular I noticed was that Enterprise appears to have been knocked out of warp only by virtue of its being forced out of its "warp corridor" that had been produced by its engines. The vengeance entering their warp corridor also appears to be without precedent; it's something that, in this universe, Starships shouldn't be able to do.
That suggests to me that the warp drive is really monkeying around with wormholes and the continuous folding of space more than the "subspace bubble" concept we're used to.
My feelings about Star Trek: Homefront Wrath Of Khan
I liked the way the characters related to each other, and obviously the visuals and action sequences were awesome. And the greatest change JJ Abrams has ever made to the Star Trek universe: He brought the prime directive back to sanity. It's okay to save aliens' lives so long as they don't see you! Screw you Phlox!
The plot on the other hand was kind of messy. They tried to tell two stories at the same time and they cockblocked each other. One story did the whole 'We can not become evil to stop evil' thing with the actor who played that exact same villain in both 24 and Enterprise. Then they did the Khan story. These are two movies, not one. JJ Abrams needs to learn if you want to shove a huge amount of stories into the same world you need 120 hours of time to play with.
Also, the fanwank and all the direct references to scenes of Wrath of Khan were cool, but you don't get to lean on scenes from previous movies when you're trying to reinvent a franchise and do your own thing. That would be like if Batman Begins had scene for scene references to Tim Burton's Batman.
I'm not sure how I feel after seeing the movie. I think it's fun but it doesn't feel like Star Trek to me.
BB did have a lot of references to the comics though..
when does Khan say to Kirk "you are a pawn?
Because he was used as a sacrificial lamb by Marcus
Also, I don't believe he understands what hipster means. Everything's hipster nowadays, when it just used to be those people who'd go "I liked it before it became popular!" when, you know, something became popular.
Hey, you know what, I think he might be a hipster!!!!!
For me, I went into the film expecting to see an escapist fantasy. I got what I expected.
However, there were artistic and writing choices that left me puzzled. For me, I would like for once in a Star Trek film, that when we see a planet from a distance, and that planet is the hub of activity for a galactic entity, that there were orbital facilities and other infrastructure seen in orbit. I would have liked to see people reacting in a space station to the battle between the two starships and to the aftermath. (I was asking myself, where was that massive spacedock? Where were the other starships?) That's just me.
And, can someone answer this question, what were those vehicles that Spock and Khan fought on.
LOL! Well, they did spend many months alone together... What happens on Delta Vega stays on Delta Vega.
I was a bit meh about them, thinking the JUMP and the fight was straight out of Attack of the Clones but when I thought about it all these kinds of scenes are just variations on the fight atop the speeding train.
They did that in Skyfall, and everyone just wondered why the hell the conductor wouldn't stop the train after the rear got ripped off.
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