STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 18, 2013.

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Grade the movie...

  1. A+

    18.7%
  2. A

    20.7%
  3. A-

    13.1%
  4. B+

    11.1%
  5. B

    8.0%
  6. B-

    4.2%
  7. C+

    5.4%
  8. C

    5.1%
  9. C-

    3.5%
  10. D+

    1.5%
  11. D

    1.6%
  12. D-

    1.3%
  13. F

    5.7%
  1. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I was laughing all through the homage. If it wasn't meant to be funny then I apologise to all those cinema-goers who haven't seen the original.

    I too wasn't happy about Chris Chapel being booted off the ship given that Majel Barrett had died since making the last movie I was hoping that Chapel would have been given a part as an homage to the grand old dame of Trek. But bite you tongue! How dare you write off my beloved Janice!

    Yeoman Rand has featured as semi-regular support in the comics, mostly in a security capacity so I was disappointed to see Boma on the Qo'Nos mission instead of her. It seems like yet another pointless miss when it comes to equalising the sexes a bit more and paying homage to some of the cool women of Trek.

    On the other hand, Chris Chapel has been absent from the comics. I'd assumed that they were keeping her under wraps until the actress playing her was cast so the sidelining was a bit of a shock. I'm hoping that they are planning to reintroduce her in a Nuversion of What Are Little Girls Made of? I'm worried they'll use her as a one-shot but I'm keeping fingers crossed. They wrote Dr Dehner out of her episode but left in all the male characters and they still haven't featured or mentioned T'Pau despite featuring the surviving vulcans so the lack of respect to the female characters has been grating on me for a while now.

    The Chekov and Uhura issue comes down to them wanting to use regular characters even if it makes no sense. I'm not a fan. They seem to be doing an excellent job with Sulu in both movies and the comics but less so with the others. Uhura suffered in the first movie when she was bumped from the Romulan mission despite being the best qualified so that the boys could play together and bond. I get the impression that these writers don't intend to change this style of storytelling.

    It's not just about making use of your expensive actors though. They do seem to do the same thing in the comics. Kirk asks if the psychologist Dr Dehner (in fact she was a psychiatrist but maybe either Kirk or the writers don't understand the difference) would have any insight into Gary Mitchell's condition. When he's told that she elected not to join teh crew, does Kirk suggest that her replacement should venture forth instead? Perhaps the delectable Helen Noel might like to take a stab?

    Nope apparently there aren't enough psychologists or phychiatrists to go round. Or enough engineers. Or enough physicists (since Spock seems to think that a research vessel needs only one - and that's probably why he nixed the geologist and vulcanologist too - what a glory hog). Still, with so few scientists you would think they'd have room for a few more engineers... :rolleyes:
     
  2. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think you take the whole 'sexual equality' thing of a show that was born in the sixties a little too seriously. It's Star Trek, it is what it is. There's lots of other shows that do far better on the 'sexual equality' count, you'd likely be happier watching those.
     
  3. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    Saw the original, didn't laugh at this one.

    As for corny, well, sometimes you just need to let your communicator shake a little more, as your face morphs into apoplectic rage (even though you know that your ship will be picking up you in two hours), then have the scream of Khan's name echo into space several times.

    In this case, I think Quinto did a superior job of exhibiting rage.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 17, 2013
  4. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, the moral compass of most of Starfleet is a bit off. I think too much of the USA's 'revenge is good' attitude has tended to creep into this franchise, eclipsing Roddenberry's more optimistic tone. I do accept that Roddenberry's desire to maintain harmony among Starfleet was a straitjacket that the franchise needed to take off but I would at the very least like my main characters to show some of that optimism. I applauded Pike's rant and Kirk does pedal back from the appalling execution scene from the last movie.

    I actually think that you mean to applaud both Sulu and Keenser. To date Sulu has demonstrated the most moral fibre out of all the characters. I've really warmed to Cho's unassuming portrayal much like TOS Uhura's quiet efficiency.

    Keenser, despite being a senior officer, believe it or not (according to the comics he's a lieutenant and is apparently the assistant chief engineer I assume since Kirk does not promote the assistant to be chief), he tkes a lot of abuse and is treated like s skivvy by Scotty in what seems to be a terrible case of workplace bullying and 'disability' discrimination. Plus Scotty does have a history of behaving unprofessionally and abusing animals. He was good in the movie but give more credit to those that really deserve it! :p
     
  5. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    See that's what I thought, but J. and some other people (?) have said that the blowing up of the "archive" was ordered by Marcus. So if Marcus orders the archive blown up and Khan does it what happens to make him turn within hours of that event and try and kill Marcus? Does he contact Marcus after the archive is blown up and Marcus says, "No you can't have your people, fuck off"? Or has he already turned and decided that blowing up the archive suited him anyway? Or is the blowing up of the archive all his own doing and Marcus did not order it?

    There's no way the blowing up of the Starfleet meeting was ordered by Marcus. This wasn't a sniper assassination that Marcus could feel safe from, missiles were blown into the room.

    I also want to know why they put 72 torpedoes on the Enterprise to kill one person. Yes Marcus was hoping a war would start but even 10 would do the trick. We know Khan has put all his people in the torpedoes so they are super important to him but wouldn't Marcus, who doesn't know this, want to keep some of his super weapons aside in case this fails and he needs them to get some other pawn to start a war?
     
  6. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I don't see that at all. I see Keenser and Scotty as having a friendly relationship that is just punctuated by good natured insults, nothing more than that. Scotty is not abusing Keenser, he's just 'needling' the guy. Real friends do that all the time.

    And when has Scotty (any version) ever shown any tendency towards "behaving unprofessionally and abusing animals"? Scotty is about the least likely to act that way out of any TOS character.
     
  7. flemm

    flemm Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah, he did. I think part of what the movie was trying to do here was *flip* Kirk and Spock a bit as the story plays out, with Kirk adopting the more "by the book," selfless attitude, and Spock finally succumbing to rage because he loses his friend.

    So, by the end, they understand each other better.

    I liked this aspect of the movie a lot. I'm still digesting it, and I'll probably want to see it again, but ultimately I think my opinion will mostly end up being that I wish they had told the story without lifting so much directly from TWoK. That mostly fell flat for me, at least initially. But we'll see.

    Uhura gets through to Spock by making the logical argument. I don't think a purely ethical argument would have worked at that point, but that is intentional, the idea is that Spock has abandoned the ethical perspective, while Kirk has adopted it.
     
  8. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I hope you don't take ME a little too seriously. Every one of my rants is tongue in cheek.

    Battlestar Galactica did do the equality of the sexes far better and I did enjoy it but sexism is not acceptable anywhere. I don't think it's fair that fewer actresses get speaking roles in this franchise and even in the sixties they were blowing the trumpet of equality - albeit they thought 66/33 was equal until TMP when they went for 50/50. Starfleet is supposed to espouse equality - the concept isn't flawed; the execution of that concept by the writers is flawed and has been in every version of Trek where 66/33 has been maintained in the face of hollow words about equality. Right now 66/33 in this franchise would be a big improvement I love pointing that out. They are sliding backwards! :rofl:
     
  9. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They are obviously friends but Keenser is an officer and Scotty's needling while they are on duty undermines his authority as an officer. Until the comic, I thought he was just a crewman and if that was the case, I would give Scotty's behaviour a pass. I actually think the writers of the comic hadn't given much thought to what being an officer actually means on a ship with 400 crew. Keenser was also the chief engineer on the outpost for years and yet Scotty, freshly from the Academy, somehow ends up treating him like a sub-ordinate. The origin story in the comic wasn't well thought out!

    TOS Scotty was great. This version experimented on live animals on multiple occasions and beamed a bio-hazard to Earth by bypassing quarantine protocols in the comic. He's good fun in this film but he's far from a model officer!
     
  10. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I thought Scotty's ribbing and affection and Keenser's obvious devotion suggested they may have been lovers.
     
  11. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ...and there it is, a brand new low. :eek:
     
  12. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Keenser isn't THAT short MLB.
     
  13. borgmatrix

    borgmatrix Ensign Newbie

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    Agreed.

    Marcus does know Khan's people are in the torpedoes. Khan escaped after it was discovered he was trying to hide his people in the torpedoes. He assumed all of his people were killed at that point. They hadn't been. But when Marcus had all the torpedoes placed on Enterprise, I think the intent was that this would lead to all of them being killed: Enterprise fires on Kronos killing Khan, and the rest of Khan's people are killed when the sabotaged Enterprise stuck in Klingon space is destroyed by Klingon forces.
     
  14. Keith1701

    Keith1701 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    A plus from me.
     
  15. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This seems kind of stupid, taking the entirety of what he holds over Khan and sending it towards Khan. Surely if he wanted them dead he could have just turned off the cryo?
     
  16. CaptainDonovin

    CaptainDonovin Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Seeing it Friday morning, can't wait!
     
  17. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Getting ready to leave for my second viewing, first with the wife. :techman:
     
  18. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Because this makes more sense than just thawing them out one or two at a time to see if any others have useful skills similar to Khan's, and then shoving the rest of them into an incinerator on Earth?

    Also - unless I misunderstood the dialogue, the fuel compartments of these torpedoes had been removed to make room for the cryocylinders. What was going to propel them from Enterprise to the surface of Kronos?
     
  19. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Sometimes you gotta make hard (perhaps immoral decisions when not at war) when you're in charge.
    Archer pirated a ship, killed a clone of Trip when the Earth was threatened. IMO Picard should have sent the virus and taken a chance that the Borg would have been destroyed. Imagine the billions of lives that would have been spared if he did. The Borg had the capacity to wipe out the galaxy.
    And Marcus had the right and duty to develop warships as an admiral in Starfleet. He crosses the line though in 'enslaving' Khan and betraying one of his own ships. He's not at war - he just wants to start one.
    I agree Starfleet should keep Khan and his guys under wraps. They are just too dangerous for the 23rd century. Perhaps they can be woken up in the 27th
     
  20. T J

    T J Commodore Commodore

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    Love how the Enterprise has torpedo tubes on the side of the secondary hull. She can fire broadsides like an ancient galleon! Just one of the many many cool aspects of the film.