Star Trek Into Darkness and the 4th wall

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Cara007, Nov 7, 2013.

  1. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And a whole lot of Berman Trek.
     
  2. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I just have to say, anyone who thinks Khan goes over the top in ID really, really needs to watch TWoK again.

    Going over the top is what Khan's all about. At least, it is once you've pissed him off.
     
  3. Cara007

    Cara007 Lieutenant

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    Yes I am guessing you right. Is not about Spock's reaction that I frowned upon. I just wished he didn't scream Khan or they did noy re-act the death scene from WOK.


    Kirk should have died differently.
     
  4. beamMe

    beamMe Commodore

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    Okay. Whatever.

    Dramatically this scene/yell works better here than the original in TWOK where Khan reacts with almost orgasmic pleasure.
     
  5. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    With Generations and Nemesis close ties for first.
     
  6. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Captain Captain

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    I'd say half of the film series, maybe a little more.
     
  7. Franklin

    Franklin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Someone has to say it: It all sucks. Let's close up shop and go home.
     
  8. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Captain Captain

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    "Space Seed" is better than any of the films.

    *drops mic*
     
  9. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Did so just recently, actually. Montalban's performance in TWoK is larger-than-life but consistent, and all of a piece; Khan as conceived by STiD alternates a bit awkwardly between laser-focused badass and brief flashes of scenery-munching UberEvil. I feel like direction was the problem there, Cumberbatch is certainly himself capable in theory of matching up with Montalban scene-for-scene if he was asked to.
     
  10. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I love Montalban's performance in TWOK.

    "In my judgment, you simply have no alternative." Smirk.
     
  11. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Captain Captain

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    I really got nothing from Cumberbatch in this one. It's like the filmmakers thought "you have a spooky voice, let's go with that!"
     
  12. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I liked both performances. :shrug:
     
  13. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    My favorite Khan is Space Seed. Subtle, nuanced, insane.
     
  14. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I actually think Khan was only playing nice in Space Seed because he needed the crew to operate the Enterprise, if he could have done it without them he probably would have just killed everyone.

    Which I think makes Into Darkness a nice companion piece to Space Seed by showing that a Khan who knew everything he need to to run a federation starship and doesn't have any reason what so ever to play nice with the Enterprise crew can be a pretty ruthless bastard.
     
  15. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Anything is possible, but Space Seed does not really give us any reason to believe this and several reasons to believe the opposite. It mostly presents Khan as someone who is driven to dominate, and thrives on dominating, "lesser" breeds of men. Simply killing everyone would deprive him of an opportunity to do so, and if he in fact was a character who got off on just killing everyone his relationship with McGivers -- and his choice to sustain it even after she'd ceased to be of use -- would make no sense.
     
  16. YellowSubmarine

    YellowSubmarine Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Thinking about it, it's more plausible than Kirk and company discovering one of the despots leading half of the world for decades in Space Seed and having no idea who he is. Even more so when the crew later acknowledge he was their favourite among the despots.

    Harrison: My name is.... NAPOLEON!
    Kirk: [blank stare] Who?... Look, I don't really care what's your name, hon, tell me why DID YOU KILL CHRISTOPHER YOU SON OF A BITCH
     
  17. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I wonder if there is a blooper reel somewhere where he says.. My name is.. SHERLOCK.
     
  18. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No he didn't. His eyeline is slightly to camera right.
     
  19. YellowSubmarine

    YellowSubmarine Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    He's just breaking the fifth wall by talking to that invisible guy sitting next to you.
     
  20. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    "Who are you?"
    Accordingly, I've read that this sort of thing is referred to as leaning on the fourth wall, not breaking it.