Star Trek - Horizon (Enterprise Feature-Length Fan Film)

Discussion in 'Fan Productions' started by tommygdawg, Nov 28, 2013.

  1. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This is a fairly tame forum where criticism is concerned. With the exception of a few who can't stop themselves from badmouthing certain individuals on other productions, it's actually a very genteel place.
     
  2. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    Indeed. Constructive criticism has been welcomed by, largely, most if not all the fan film productions who have chosen to interact with the membership here.

    Which isn't to say there aren't also those who can't differentiate criticisms from attacks or hostility, but those types are few and far between. Besides, tommygdawg has the right attitude and clearly the drive and talent and none of the cynicism, so I for one am quite looking forward to seeing what lies beyond the "Horizon."
     
  3. Loken

    Loken Lieutenant Commander

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    Or the couple trolls who live on this forum and use it as a medium to constantly prove how smart they they think they are to everyone else.

    Ultimately Tommy, the best thing to do is focus on your own product, and get tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or like Phase II, millions of viewers. What a couple people on a Trek forum say will not affect your success. And it is way better to spend time with people who actually create fan films, not talk about them.

    And I would suggest you have an active Facebook group for your fans, and possibly, when you get big enough, your own forum.
     
  4. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    EDIT: Never mind.

    Maurice, as ever, you are right.

    Post deleted.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2013
  5. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    A goal well worth working toward and one I will do my best to help us all achieve.

    Apologies, tommygdawg, for getting ahead of and a little too full of myself there. It won't happen here again.
     
  6. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Honestly, if anything I think people on this forum are perhaps a tad too uncritical of some of the stories being told in fanfilms (and I mean in terms of constructive criticism), but if the choice is between a mutual admiration society and snark, I say let the love flow. :)
     
  7. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It really comes down to remembering who's behind a production and what they want to accomplish. People who produce videos for a living should be judged on one scale, while amateurs should be judged differently. I certainly don't mean that someone should be told that something that's "bad" should be praised as "good". I have in at least one case passed along some rather pointed criticisms of fan productions in PMs. I don't see anything wrong with choosing to praise effort and enthusiasm publicly whilst saving the more pointed criticisms for private conversations.
    On the other hand, if I want to crticize JJ Abrams or the "brains" behind "Nemesis" I'll just let it rip and those on the receiving can cry all the way to the bank (if I care to flatter myself into thinking that they care what I think)
     
  8. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    One thing I've learned to ask people is "what kind of critique do you want?", which saves everyone a helluva lot of time and wasted effort. Some people want none at all. Others just want broad "did you like it?' type comments, others want suggestions, and a few brave souls say "take it apart".
     
  9. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I agree that it's great when someone is willing to do that. (The Intrepid crew have been especially unflinching and I think their new efforts are going to reflect that)
     
  10. tommygdawg

    tommygdawg Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Thanks for the thoughts and opinions all. I generally agree on all accounts. Constructive criticism is incredibly important, which is why I don't like to surround myself with "yes men (or women)". I believe no matter how good someone is, there's always something new to learn or explore. That being said, the credentials of the person giving the advice and the kind of advice given are a big factor on whether or not I'll take it.

    For instance, if someone comes to me and says "hey, I don't like the lead in your film." In most cases there's nothing I can do about that at the point when I'm receiving the criticism; and I also have to consider if it's just a matter of opinion.

    The ones that really burn my toast are vague or simply rude responses such as "this sucks!" There's absolutely nothing I can do with that kind of "criticism."

    Never-the-less, I do take all thoughts on a project into consideration, and even if I don't agree with someone's view, I'm typically grateful that they even took the time to analyze something I've done. One of the things I strive for most on a personal level is being very introspective and self-aware. This spills over very much onto everything I do as well. I truly mean it when I say that I value opinions, even if I may not agree with all of them, and that I will always at the least consider their impact on future projects.

    Oh and one other thing. I'm not a huge fan of letting into "professional" productions such as Nemesis or JJ's films or anything else. Being critical is okay, but I think it's very important to remember that the people who make these films still work incredibly hard on them and put a lot of work in. I know if it were me, even if I was the highest paid director in Hollywood, the most important thing for me would be passion for my story and devoting all of my energy to that story. It would suck to then have people rip it apart as if it were made by robots. Professionals may get paid well for what they do, but they're still people. I just try to approach everything with an open mind.

    Also, thank you all for the kind words! Again, I do appreciate it very much! :)

    And in a related note...the next shoot is this Friday! I'm incredibly stoked. A lot is on the schedule for the day and we're going to finally break into the meat of the movie. I'll be keeping you all updated for sure!
     
  11. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    Well said!
     
  12. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I once received a critique that went, "There's something wrong in the second half." My reply was, "Can you be any less specific?" That's the kind of stuff that's maddening.

    But good criticism is invaluable. Some of the best notes I've received were the ones that pointed out a central flaw in my work, which often forced me back to square one but got me to write a much better script.

    And good criticism can open doors. A few years ago a producer I knew was having difficulty getting notes on a script from the director attached to the film. Since he wanted a rewrite done, he asked me if I'd read the script and give him notes. So, I did, and gave him 25 pages of notes on the 130ish page screenplay. His response was, "These are the best notes I've ever seen! Would you want to do the rewrite?" so, we made a deal, he paid me, and I did the rewrite. I think the thing that got his attention wasn't just that I said what was right and wrong, but where things were wrong I had very specific and practical proposals on how the issues could be fixed...plus I also suggested how to cut unnecessary characters and scenes and settings in a way that also lowered the production costs. I consider that a good critique.
     
  13. DCR

    DCR Commander Red Shirt

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    As a writer and editor, I have one almost universally applicable critique statement for almost any piece. I look at the dialogue and ask if the character needs to make that statement, or can it be made shorter?

    So many fan productions have dialogue that belabors the obvious, and repeats unnecessary information.
     
  14. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    The general rule of thumb in television and film is "No more than 2 lines of dialogue on the printed page." Anything more and you encroach on monologue territory.

    When I first learned this little factoid, I couldn't believe how much sense it made to me, and how much it vastly improved my own writing afterward when I began to implement it as I wrote. It cuts away a lot of the exposition and BS, and even when you do wind up including more than the 2 lines, it's usually because you need those extra words.
     
  15. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    These are all good points, but I wonder if we aren't hijacking this thread with comments maybe better suited to the Writers and Filmmakers Primer topics.
     
  16. tommygdawg

    tommygdawg Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Hey everyone, it's been a while since I've posted here, so I thought I'd update everyone on the latest goings-on with the film!

    We've had our first couple of big green screen shoots! That's a big a milestone! There's a bunch of behind the scenes pictures over on the facebook page for the film: https://www.facebook.com/sthorizon

    I'll share one here in the thread, though. This picture represents a huge personal milestone for me and one of the most gratifying feelings I've had in a while. I started work on this project over a year ago with modeling the bridge, and finally I'm starting to see it all come together. To motion track this first shot and see it fit perfectly into place was an incredible experience. It was kind of that moment of "wow, this really will work the way I planned!"


    Hyperlink to the image from my SFM thread: http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106812&d=1390374885

    If I post it in the message as an image, it fills the whole page!
     
  17. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    It's a good feeling, seeing your words and passion realized on screen. The behind-the-scenes pics are great, Tommy. Looking forward to seeing your final cut. Keep up the great work!
     
  18. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm looking forward to this.

    Did you consider keeping it in continuity with the Enterprise Roman War novels ?
     
  19. tommygdawg

    tommygdawg Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Definitely! Thank you :) Glad you're liking the pics and such!

    Thanks! I considered it, but I decided to go with the old notion of only taking what's on screen as canon. In order to tell the story I wanted to, it made the most sense to only focus on what's been done on the shows. It was also the most feasible approach to take.
     
  20. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Makes sense !

    Just noticed my spellchecker doesn't like Romulan. Roman wars could be a very different show...