Star Trek Fan Film Re-Edits

Discussion in 'Fan Productions' started by KennyMadison, Jan 4, 2014.

  1. KennyMadison

    KennyMadison Ensign Newbie

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    First off, I'm a huge, huge fan of everything on this board. I've been lurking for a couple weeks and there is some amazing stuff happening. Also, I just got turned on to Starship Exeter, which is unbelievably well done.

    Speaking of unbelievably well done, I need an opinion from you fine folks here on the BBS boards. I'm actually at a moral quandary and I don't know where else to post this in the boards. I trust the moderators will move it if need be.

    Suppose that there were an online re-edit of a fan film. The original fan film is still available and linked to at this online re-edit as well. However, let's say a person associated with the original fan film politely asks the person doing the re-edit to take the re-edit down. Let's say that the person that's done the re-edit might be bullheaded and not want to take it down because he wants people to see his version as well.

    Both versions are easily available and clearly demarcated. What does this person do?

    Not that I know who did this. It's a hypothetical. And I'm a big fan of all parties involved and don't want to smear ANYONE'S NAME. I know tensions are high at the moment, but I just want OPINIONS.

    No smearing. I just want opinions on a question. Please help.
     
  2. Darkwing

    Darkwing Commodore Commodore

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    Who owns the material? If neither own it, and both are re-working someone else's material, neither has room to squawk. But if one person is reworking something owned by another, much as I might like to see the differing take, the owner has the right to say "hands off".
     
  3. KennyMadison

    KennyMadison Ensign Newbie

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    I took it down. Thanks for the advice. Also, that seems common sense, but it can take a stranger to tell it to me.
     
  4. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm connected to the Exeter projects. Is this in reference to someone recutting an Exeter episode?
     
  5. 1001001

    1001001 I Like the Beats and the Shouting Moderator

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    Moving to Fan Productions.
     
  6. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

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    I don't know that I have much of answer for you. But I'm interested to know: why the re-edit? Assuming newly-created footage of some kind isn't being incorporated, what is the goal of the editing? Restructuring of the plot a bit? Making the chronological order make more sense?

    Or, instead of reordering stuff, are you actually editing and taking out some scenes--and, if so, which ones and why?


     
  7. Kelso

    Kelso Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Leave other people's stuff alone. If you don't like the way a fan film is edited, volunteer your services to the production or make your own.
     
  8. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Or on the other hand, edit whatever you want.

    It's the sharing it with other people that creates waves. :)
     
  9. KennyMadison

    KennyMadison Ensign Newbie

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    Maurice: No, it does not involve Exeter. It involved Kitumba and my version was taken down. At least, I hope so. I have hard times hitting buttons, but it looks like it was definitely taken down as of my last search.

    Schnitzer: In my opinion, Kitumba was a bit slow. That being said, it's far better than anything I would ever made and I always bow down to you guys. It's been taken down as per Phase II's request. It took me a couple days.

    The scenes I took out (in order) were the first scene outside the transporter room. All of the important information has been established in the Captain's Log ("urgent cryptic orders" making the whole thing mysterious and urgent, and "Klingon Empire" establishing that this will more than likely have something to do with the Klingon Empire) and that they get no more information.

    So I cut to our heroes entering into the transporter room, which makes it a bit more urgent because of the rushed movement of our characters. Pretentious thinking on my part, I know, but I think it's true.

    Then the first sentences we hear when we're actually with our characters are what they feel about the situation. They're uneasy. That tells us that we should be uneasy.

    Anyways, the next part I cut was the line about "there haven't been any reports about raiding." Just a matter of pacing. The big mystery here is why has the Enterprise received cryptic orders, so we need to get to the answer as quickly as possible. When Gil Gerard says that "Klingons have been amassing forces," that answers Kirk's question of, "What's this been all about?"

    I believe I also cut Commodore Probert's first line because it's just hitting home a point that's already been stated quite authoritatively.

    I then cut all the dialogue given after Gil Gerard says, "Your best shot at arriving on Qo'nos safely." That's a great line and a super dramatic line. The best reveal is a Klingon after that because it's shocking and a great act out of the teaser. I also cut the two transporting shots together to make it move faster so we can get to the act out quicker. It's a bit stronger to show it than talking about how shocking it is. Plus, Kirk's surprised glance tells us everything we need to know about how to feel.

    TEASER TIME CUT: Roughly 50 seconds.


    Oh, also? This is all opinion. Oh, my gosh, I'm no authority on all of this, since I didn't edit the original thing. Poop on it if you'd like, please. I deserve the poop.


    ACT I:
    After the credits, I made a lot of tiny cuts afterwards in our big exposition dump in the transporter. There's a tremendous amount of information conveyed. I made the recut version from the first half preview, so the real version made some cuts that are much better.

    REAL VERSION (0:03:50 to 0:07:41) Length 0:03:51
    RECUT VERSION (0:02:54 to 0:06:22) Length 0:03:28


    I left Malkathon's scenes alone. They just worked for me.

    I cut the ghost ship scene because no real information is revealed that isn't hit again in the briefing scene afterwards. We're shown K'sia's willingness to comply by the charts he's supplied. Their antagonism towards each other is also hinted at later. No new character or plot information is revealed that isn't shown later. The scene with the Birds of Prey (Bird of Preys?) serves the same function as the ghost ship sequence, which is to add tension in regards to if our heroes will make it to Qo'nos.

    After this, I left the next Malkathon scene alone, then cut the next scene. I think this is the set up for the deployment of the shuttlecraft, but it doesn't reveal anything about character and the shuttlecraft trick I think we can just attribute to Kirk being Kirk.

    This gets us to the final battle, which I'm fairly sure I left largely uncut. It's a very effective sequence in my opinion and is wonderfully executed.

    My video stops after the Enterprise gets destroyed.

    That's my first half cut. It lasts about 14 minutes versus the Real Version's 24 minute run time.

    I hope that explains what I did.

    Also, re: Kelso...I did like what they did. I just thought it could've been tightened up. So I just went ahead and did it. Then they told me to take it down and, after I asked what I should do and delaying for a bit too long, I did. Maybe this is me being a narcissist, but there's no reason for the Phase II crew to hire me as an editor/story advisor when they have no idea who I am and I have no work to show them.

    Anyways, no harm intended, but harm was done on my part. I've learned my lesson and won't do it again.
     
  10. Tom

    Tom Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Vic is that you? ^^ LOL just joking
     
  11. Tom Hendricks

    Tom Hendricks You move! Premium Member

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    I don't understand, if we can re-edit existing Trek. Trek Movies, Trek TV shows and the like, why can't someone re-edit fan films? As long as they stick to the same guidelines not to profit from it, whats wrongs with this? I have no issue with anyone wanting to take the time to make a tighter or alternative version of a Fan Film.
     
  12. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    While anyone with the right tools can re-edit official Trek stuff we're technically not allowed to distribute it, and even posting it on YouTube is actually a copyright violation.
     
  13. Barbreader

    Barbreader Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I would like to add that at Star Trek Reviewed I do not treat edits, mash-ups, or recuts as fan films. They are frequently taken down due to copyright issues, and most are a much more serious violation of copyright than most fan films. Fan films violate the vague and relatively modern idea of 'franchise copyright' while recuts, edits, and mash-ups violate the most basic common law copyright.

    I have one place where I list the ones I know about, mostly to try to head off people from sending me to them again... and again... and again etc. which happened before I listed them.
     
  14. Cinema Geekly

    Cinema Geekly Commander Red Shirt

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    Personally it's quite fun. I edited out the entire B4 subplot in STNEM and cut the movie down to slightly longer than a NextGen episode. I rather like it that way.

    Even though the edit serves as a commentary on the original film you'd still be hard pressed to get it uploaded anywhere.
     
  15. milojthatch

    milojthatch Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Strictly speaking about re-editing fan films from a legal point of view, I think considering that those who are making the fan films in the first place do so on the good graces of the studio (in the case of Star Trek, that being Paramount), I don't see it as wrong. Both the original fan film and a possible re-edit are really in the same boat and outside of keeping them private, are both at the mercy of the studio. So I'd say unless the studio say "Na" to a fan film re-cut, who cares?

    Now that said, from an ethical point of view, that may be a little more murky. If it was me, I'd say at least ask the people who made the fan film originally if they are ok with it and make sure when sharing your cut, you clearly link to the original version or the website for the film/show. Make sure that proper credit is given.

    I'd have to add, if the person making the new edits are any kind of talented, I'd think the original people who make the fan film should take notice. That may be someone you want to work with in the future...
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2014
  16. USS Intrepid

    USS Intrepid Commodore Commodore

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    Recutting someone else's work against their wishes is just rude. It's simply a matter of common courtesy. If they don't care, or if they give permission, then fine. But if someone asks you not to, then it's just plain obnoxious.
     
  17. Maestro

    Maestro Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There's a big difference between doing a fan edit of corporate produced work (Star Trek) and a fan produced work (Phase II). One is a labour of love, the other a labour of money. Feel free to edit either, but the labour of love? Don't talk about it, don't share it. It's just... rude... and almost mean.

    And yeah, I didn't engage in parallel structure for a reason.
     
  18. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    As a burgeoning editor, I've taken one or two professional productions - Star Trek Insurrection, for one - and recut it as an exercise for myself. But I've never shared that work nor do I intend to.

    Recutting fan films is a whole other ball of wax. These productions are done in the spirit of fun and for the people making them to learn and enjoy the craft. Recutting their efforts for your own purposes strikes me as needlessly selfish and skates into douchebag territory, and is a slap to the face of the hardworking fans who produce this material for us.

    So, in other words, don't do it.
     
  19. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The Search for Spock would need a slight re-edit.

    At first, Kirk only wants to get McCoy to Vulcan to save his mind. But then the Grissom reports Spock's torpedo tube being found. So he decides he wants to get Spock's body for a proper Vulcan funeral as well.

    But then they find Spock alive and well on Genesis, and then Sarek comes up with the idea that perhaps they could re-integrate his katra in the body.
     
  20. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    Part of that is because Star Trek III was heavily edited after it's first cut. The film was supposed to open with the first scenes on Grissom -- this is why we have a big fanfare there and the chyron telling us where they are, even though Kirk mentions it in his first scene at the beginning of the film.

    I do agree, it would be interesting to re-cut III though, to see what it would look like as originally done.