Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Discussion in 'Fan Productions' started by Warped9, Feb 8, 2014.

  1. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

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    Counting down to 12:00 noon EST on April 1st. Well, actually 1:00 p.m. EDT; will will have switched to Daylight Saving Time by then.
     
  2. wtriker1701

    wtriker1701 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Maurice is a wandering teaser...
    A good sign, it won't be just an April's Fool.
    Thumbs pressed - as delays can happen, if we look over at P2...
     
  3. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Maurice doesn't strike me as given to taking unnecessary risks. I suspect the work is either finished, or close enough that he can confidently put out a firm date.
     
  4. Noname Given

    Noname Given Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^^^
    Agreed here. That was my big complaint with their previous episode in that it came across like they were trying to do TNG in the TOS era; and Kirk in that episode acted more like Picard.

    In "Lolani" 'Kirk' was (well, TOS Season 3 which is fine as they are continuing from where Season 3 left off) 'Kirk' again; and that was nice to see. I hope they continue writing the character more in that vein.

    My couple of nitpicks:

    1) The fact that assaulted or not (I didn't get the impression the Tellerites were trying to kill her), they do pretty much have the crew of the 1701 (Kirk included) pretty much glossing over the fact she killed 4 people (good the Admiral Erin Gray mentioned it); so yeah, IMO her own 'moral' position wasn't all that cut and dry.

    2) Convenient the Orion slave trader ship was a one man vessel (just saying that you would think he'd have a larger ship being a galactic slave trader, etc.)

    Overall though, I thought the technical aspects (sets, costumes, etc.) were outstanding; the writing and acting very solid. I enjoyed the episode; and felt that it was definitely rooted in the TOS, and NOT the TNG era this time out.
     
  5. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    There were grey areas in this story that weren't explored even with a line or two.

    - Assuming the Tellarites were Federation citizens weren't they committing some violation by transporting and one of them "owning" an Orion slave?

    - Assuming the Tellarites were Federation citizens and Lolani is suspected of at least having a hand in their deaths then why wouldn't the Federation (as represented by Starfleet) not be interested in thoroughly investigating that matter? Did Lolani act completely in self-defence? And how are the families of the dead Tellarites served by not having a full inquiry?

    - And how are they going to explain the destruction of the Orion slaver ship? Was Lolani somehow responsible? Dis she have help and/or someone else was responsible? Did Zaminhon suicide just to keep Lolani from being free?
     
  6. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    As I mentioned above, were they Federation citizens Kirk would have had a leg to stand on.

    Was it stated it was a one-man ship?
     
  7. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    I don't recall there being any reference within the episode that the Tellarites weren't Federation citizens. A simple line to that effect would have cleared up a lot of confusion. Because otherwise we know the Tellarites are members of the Federation.
     
  8. M

    M Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Interesting. For the whole first part of the episode I kept thinking, how can it possibly be murder when she was being kept as a slave against her will? I mean, what kind of attitude to morality is it where you can't defend against your tormentors, even if lethal force must be used? The story spends a great deal with the question whether Lolani is a murderer or not. But how can she be a murderer when all she did was fighting for her right to live a free life (at to not be abused sexually, no less)?
     
  9. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    A really solid second outing and kudos to Mckenna, she more than held her own as a lead in a role that was also appropriate to the plot. She has great chemistry with Kirk and Michelle has great comic and dramatic timing. I thought that Vic was really chanelling Shatner in more than a few scenes.

    I loved the enchanting moral ambiguity of Lolani. She was spell-bindingly portrayed. The principle oddity for me though was that once they had clear evidence that Lolani was returning to physical abuse (quite apart from the fact that she was born free and later enslaved against her will), surely she would have strong grounds for claiming asylum? At the very least it would have delayed her departure while a hearing was conducted. I think they needed something more compelling, like a specific crisis, to discourage Starfleet from doing what was clearly the right thing.

    Loving Erin too. She looks fabulous and still has that air of command we all remember. ;P
     
  10. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    There is a question as to whether Spock's mind meld could be accepted as evidence of self-defence. One can make a case for her killing the first two Tellarites to prevent what she believed to be attempted rape. But from what we saw her "owner" was injured and incapacitated yet she killed him anyway. So it could be argued that at that immediate moment he was no threat to her.

    So as I said before there are questions hanging here unanswered.

    - Are they in Federation space? We don't know.
    - Were these particular Tellarites not Federation citizens, having renounced their citizenship? We don't know.
    - We're assuming it's illegal for Federation citizens to own and transport another intelligent being, which goes to the above point.
    - How are the families of the dead Tellarites (assuming they are Federation citizens) served by surrendering the alleged perpetrator without a full inquiry?

    A couple lines of dialogue could have cleared all these questions.

    I applaud the story they want to tell in this episode---I really do---and I quite like most of what is done in it. But by covering all or as many of the loose threads as possible it would paint a different picture. As it stands our heroic Captain looks stumped and totally helpless because he's not given any possible loophole and for viewers that can be dramatically frustrating. On this point I've read quite a few opinions of fans who are bummed out because they're so used to Kirk figuring his way out of such boxes. To really justify a "no win" scenario the writers should have covered all the bases so the audience is clued in to why things unfold as they do.

    A couple of extra lines from Commodore Gray would have cleared everything up. As is we're left guessing and Kirk looks looks stumped and Starfleet and the Federation look really bad.

    We might speculate that in attempting to retrieve Lolani then Kirk was prepared to hold his superiors' feet to the fire. He was going to make a principled stand and say, "This is wrong. We cannot go into Orion and dictate how they run their planet, but we don't surrender helpless individuals into slavery and brutality."

    Even if Kirk had made that assertion to Commodore Gray and managed to at least make her look somewhat shamed that would have been a redeeming moment for Kirk and the audience. The point is if you're going to make Starfleet and the Federation (which are supposed to be positive and optimistic agencies) look like shit in a story then you should at least justify it.


    Star Trek had its share of downbeat or bittersweet endings and they can work quite well as long as we aren't left with unanswered questions.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2014
  11. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think it's a mistake to assume that all members of any race are citizens of their people's home planet. They could have been born outside the Federation or renounced their citizenship, etc. etc.
     
  12. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Fair enough, and a line of dialog would have cleared that up for the audience.
     
  13. urbandefault

    urbandefault Commodore Commodore

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    "Citizens" or not, some people are criminals. If they are killed while committing a crime, too bad. No sympathy from me.

    That said, I need to watch the whole thing from start to finish to make an informed decision. Let me get back to you on that. ;)
     
  14. RCAM

    RCAM Commander Red Shirt

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    Looks like Chuck Huber, the actor from the vignettes, will be back to play McCoy in STC's third episode. He was a little rough around the edges, but I thought he had a good presence about him and nice chemistry with Vic and company.

    Larry Nemecek actually did a pretty good job, all things considered, but I suspect Chuck has a better chance of making McCoy relevant and alive.
     
  15. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    We need some of that classic Spock/McCoy banter back as well as some of McCoy's acerbic nature dialled back in.
     
  16. Balrog

    Balrog Commodore Commodore

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    I really enjoyed this episode! Well done to all involved!

    One of the... challenges of fan productions is the acting and action sequences. I completely understand and recognize the limitations of what doing a fan production is and the limited time those involved have. Please forgive me as I am merely stating this is a challenge and not a criticism in any way. I applaud everyone for making such efforts, and I enjoy everyone's work.

    That said, I was very pleased with the acting on this production. The actors playing Kirk and Spock really are fine and seemingly comfortable in their roles. Chris Doohan is doing an amazing job as Scotty. And the guest stars were excellent! I loved seeing Erin Gray and Lou Ferrigno.

    Cheers and continued success!
     
  17. Joel_Kirk

    Joel_Kirk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Just finished watching 'Lolani.'

    Overall, pretty good. I would have liked to see more of Kim Stinger as Uhura. (She's a very pretty girl, yet we see very little of her!) While the counselor is also lovely to look at, and is a 'strong' character in her own right...I agree with previous comments that Uhura would have been an interesting challenge to be the one to side with Lolani. (I say 'challenge' because Uhura is a a subordinate, and that would have created an interesting piece of conflict between her and Kirk).

    Little touches I liked were the 3rd season TOS music that was edited into various scenes. Also, while the ending didn't exactly end on a 'happy' note, it showed that not everything works out as the crew (or even the audience) thinks it will.
     
  18. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I enjoyed this episode quite a bit. Another winner for Star Trek Continues. I loved the moral quandary Captain Kirk was placed in and his eventual decision. It was great seeing Lou Ferrigno and Erin Gray and the actress playing Lolani was good. As was McKenna.

    It's interesting that some felt Uhura should've sided more with Lolani. I would've liked that. Especially with a show that's an homage to a 60's TV show that commented on the racial politics of that era, it would've been cool to see Uhura take a stand on the side of Lolani and her actions could be rooted in American slavery/segregation and African colonization.
     
  19. Joel_Kirk

    Joel_Kirk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, if they just used Uhura for this episode just to make a comment on slavery and African colonization, that would have been BS, imo. A bit troublesome, possibly a bit racist. If they went that route, it would liken the hypothetical 'episode' to one of those cliched television episodes (e.g. 'on a very special episode') where said episode is dedicated to focusing on the black character just to make a statement on racism....then that black character is regulated to the background for the rest of the series.

    Star Trek works best when it is not patting itself on its back, or pushing what it thinks equality should be. Or, overall trying to speak for everyone - especially people of color.

    Granted, they - the ST:C guys - could make the slavery connection, but I was thinking more of Uhura connecting with Lolani more on a female level and showing Lolani that as a female she doesn't have to adhere to certain conditions.

    EDIT: On that same note of female characters, I forgot to mention how I liked the addition of a female security officer. The only female security officer was 'Ensign Wu' from the Star Trek book inspired by the Choose Your Own Adventures - the name which escapes me at this time.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2014
  20. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I've said it on TrekMovie: they needn't have hung a lantern on it. Simply having Lolani notice Uhura being treated as an equal and maybe having Uhura give her a dress (it would be in her nature, seeing as how she volunteered her quarters in "Elaan of Troyius") would have sent a message precisely by NOT sending an overt one.