Star Trek Concepts Originating in TAS

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Shawnster, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. Sector 7

    Sector 7 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Silly me, I thought the title of the thread was "Star Trek Concepts Originating in TAS". My point remains valid.:techman:
     
  2. FormerLurker

    FormerLurker Commodore Commodore

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    Not true. The female redshirt played by Julie Cobb in "By Any Other Name" was a security officer, not a yeoman. And she got kacked by the bad guys. Not a great initial showing, but she was security.
     
  3. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Can you cite a source to support this?

    It seems really doubtful. From Kirk's log in that episode:

     
  4. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    You've lost track of what we were discussing. I was referring to the claim that "Turnabout Intruder"'s last-minute assertion about female starship captains was "the original idea." I wasn't addressing anything to do with TAS at all.
     
  5. CaptPapa

    CaptPapa Commander Red Shirt

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    I really do not know . . .

    I humbly disagree - besides the Romulan Commander which was quite correctly sited in another post - but sticking to Starfleet vessels. If I'm remembering correctly, the portion of The Cage footage which shows Number One being left in command is encorporated into The Menagerie - thus including it in TOS.
     
  6. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Wrong. The events from "The Cage" are presented as historical fact in the two-part "The Menagerie." And since the vast majority of "The Cage" footage is shown in the two-parter those events establish a fact in the TOS universe.
     
  7. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    But not a squadron of Starfleet starships. And she not Human. As you noted, we never saw a human woman in command of a starship, it's possible that females of other species with memberships in the Federation did have their females in command of ships.

    A parallel might be this as far as Number One being in a position where circumstances might place her in command of the ship.

    Historically, American military policy was that women not be placed in combat assignments, however in their support roles women would occasionally find themselves in combat. They would travel into the wrong area, or events would overtake them. They would be removed from the combat situation as soon as possible, they would not be simply allowed to stay in combat.

    As second in command Number One could find herself in command if something happen to Pike, but would she be allowed by Starfleet Command to retain that command? Or would a new commanding officer (male) have been assigned to the ship as soon as possible?

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Again: the only hint of women not being allowed to command was in the very last episode of the show, which was a crappy episode that deserves to be ignored -- and the line was spoken by a lunatic. So why even take it seriously? Just write it off as one more of TOS's many continuity glitches and ignore the damn thing.
     
  9. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    Why would Number One be an XO if she's not going to command one day? She's not a doctor, a therapist or the phone operator.
     
  10. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    The term "Vulcan's Forge" actually dates back to a Star Trek fanzine from 1969.

    KAHS-WAN RITUAL - Spock's experience as a seven year old. Shi-Kar Desert Survival, Vulcan listed on holodeck panel in "TNG: The Emissary". T'Pol's experience mentioned in "Enterprise: The Catwalk".

    LUNAPORT of "Yesteryear" - Locale on Earth's moon mentioned in "Enterprise: The Catwalk".

    Second turbolift entrance to bridge, as later shown in TMP.

    Mr Kyle's mustache, predating the mustache and goatee in ST II.

    STARFLEET IDENTIFICATION CARD of "Mudd's Passion" - Featured in "Star Trek III: The Search for Spock", "Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home".
     
  11. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Yes, the second entrance to the bridge hinted in this screencap on the left side.
    IIRC the TMP Enterprise also had this emergency exit but it was not a turbo lift.

    Bob
     
  12. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There is a doorway there, but was it ever shown to be a turbolift?

    :)
     
  13. jpv2000

    jpv2000 Captain Captain

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    That's what I was trying to remember. I usually assumed it was the bathroom. ;)
     
  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    The Franz Joseph and Michael McMaster blueprints incorporated the second bridge door from TAS, and portrayed it as leading to a service corridor around the bridge. And yes, the corridor did allow access to a head, as well as to a gangway down to deck 2.
     
  15. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    On this page of screencaps from Beyond the Farthest Star, there is this shot, which gives about the best look there is inside the second door that I recall. As one of Filmation's infamous errors, the shot evidently lacks the door elements themselves, thus revealing what's back there.

    Earlier on the same page of thumbnails, you can see McCoy and Scotty exiting the main turbolift.

    A comparison of the backgrounds, in particular the colors and noting the presence of the silver stripe almost shoulder high, convinces me, at least, that the intent was for there to be a turbolift at the second exit, as established in the behind the scenes material that's out there.
     
  16. David.Blue

    David.Blue Commander Red Shirt

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    That character was indeed insane, so I think it likely there only were no female captains of starships at that time--more specifically no captains of Constitution-class ships. But by STIV we definitely saw a female captain of a Miranda-class.
     
  17. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    We don't even need to assume that much. Janet Lester's exact words were, "Your world of starship captains doesn't admit women." That could be taken to mean that his duties as a captain left him no room for a woman in his life. Or maybe it was just a paranoid delusion she constructed to avoid admitting her own lack of qualifications. It makes no sense to assume that an assertion by an insane person is true on any level at all.

    In the Pocket novels, there is indeed at least one female captain of a Constitution-class ship contemporaneous with TOS, Captain Atish Khatami of the Endeavour. John Byrne's IDW comics have Pike's Number One as a commodore commanding the Yorktown during or shortly after the events of TOS.
     
  18. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Not to repeat myself, though apparently it's necessary: Kirk agreed with Janice. We know good and well that Janice didn't just want to be Kirk's lover, she wanted to be a starship captain. The episode doesn't make sense, unless it's about the glass ceiling.
     
  19. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Or he felt it pointless to argue with someone who is known to be nuts and also apparently very ill. It's safe to assume this isn't the first time the subject was discussed and probably argued. After a while you're tired of the subject and just shrug it off with, "Fine, whatever."
     
  20. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    If you take Lester's comment at full face value, then yes there is some contradictory information in TOS about whether women can command a starship. So which do you give greater weight? The episode (Cage/Menagerie) where a woman was actually shown in command of a starship, or one line of dialogue by a character who was quite obviously erratic and unreliable? To me there's no question: Being female did not disqualify one from starship command.