Star Trek: Axanar

Discussion in 'Fan Productions' started by Linnear, Sep 24, 2012.

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  1. mos6507

    mos6507 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The most important thing is it should reflect how the characters talk. If everyone in a show (or R-rated movie) are swearing like drunken sailors, it paints a monolithic portrait. Not everyone speaks that way, or speaks that way in all moods and circumstances.

    Anything taboo that's overused loses its impact. That's why Kirk's "let's get the hell out of here" in City on the Edge of Forever seems to hold more import than all the swears combined in Seth MacFarlane's Ted, because it stands out.

    I think the bigger issue is the internet, especially uncensored forums like this one, are a big factor in "normalizing" profanity even with young kids. I mean, nobody seems to be aware or care in the least about the demographics of the audience of what they're saying because it's the internet and you can't physically see them.

    I'd say the #1 source of exposure of swears to kids are casual swearing like the above, on places kids hang out like Facebook or Youtube comments.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2014
  2. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    I really didn't even take notice of it until I came here beyond the bad guys called one of the good guys something not so nice. Definitely didn't think of it as something worthy of discussion.
     
  3. localyokel

    localyokel Ensign Red Shirt

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    well said:techman:.
    For the record, I am giving an opinion. I think the writers want to turn out the best film they can make. If so they want opinions.
     
  4. Joel_Kirk

    Joel_Kirk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I have to disagree there. Trektoday is censored to an extent. Otherwise, I wouldn't have my own blog where I talk about my experiences as an African American fan of Trek as well as my experiences on this site. (Even though I can make it searchable for the public, but still keep it moderated).

    And, profanity with 'young kids' isn't something new. Profanity is heard through music - or whatever passes for it - and on school grounds (e.g. the high school level). Not too mention, it's heard in movies that some young adults are able to walk into - I should know, because I recall being able to get a ticket to House Party 2 during a day I cut school - and this was back in the early 90s!

    As for the line in Axanar, I think it was adequate for the scene. Kate Vernon's character made an impact to the Klingons, and because of that they are they called her something disrespectful. Based on the context of the 20 min short, this was a huge war that the Klingons were very sure that they were going to win without much pressure from the Federation.

    As stated before, I still get jarred by the term 'pinkskins' to describe humans - when many humans like myself are far from 'pink.' (Note: I'm more of a dark chocolate;)).

    The people of Axanar aren't obligated to call out that particular area of racism that originated with the ENT writers....but, again, it is jarring as something you might hear in a 1950s sci-fi story.
     
  5. Barbreader

    Barbreader Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I wonder what the color reception of different species is in Star Trek. The comment about 'pink skins' from Joel_Kirk left me thinking about how different species see color differently. Adorians might not be able to see what to them is a very slight difference in color between Africans and Swedes, because all they see is, "It's not blue!" What we see as chocolate and light tan might all be very very bright pink to them. The others colors we see that make us different shades of brown might be much less bright. We all have red blood just under the skin.

    Turtles can see infra-red and ultra-violet. Just replace a bulb that is burned out in those spectra in a turtle's tank and watch the reaction. I can't see the difference without a light meter, but the turtle goes nuts. HE sees it easily. It's absolutely clear he sees color differently than I do. (Yes, I have a turtle.)

    That said, calling all earth humans pink skins does seem dated, even for the 1990s. I could see it in a story written in 1950, but the 1990s? That's weird.
     
  6. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This of course assumes that a race of largely blue skinned aliens would have a reason to give a crap about the differences in ethnic groups of a species that at the time was largely technologically inferior to them and barely removed from nuking each other over some likely idiotic arbitrary thing.
     
  7. Joel_Kirk

    Joel_Kirk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Good post...

    Too, given that term was used by Soval, I wonder when or if it was phased out. For example, an Andorian ambassador coming to a meeting with dark-skinned Admiral (as dark as, say, actor Peter Mensah) around the time of Axanar probably wouldn't find said Admiral taken too kindly about being called a 'pinkskin.'

    I can see him (or her) - human Ambassador or Admiral - saying, "I won't tolerate racism, Ambassador. Address me by my title or as a individual, or this meeting is over."

    True, but it also makes them seem ignorant. And, it begs the question of if they came across a human crew that was predominantly dark-skinned....how would that particular interaction be? Would it show the Andorians racist against humans as a whole or based on skin/shade?

    It also begs the question of how others within the Andorian race or treated if they have different shades or colors? (I understand there were albino Andorians, but I forget if there was anything said about differences of treatment).

    The Cardassians had their own racial prejudices and chauvinistic attitudes as well, but they were fleshed out and we found out that not everyone held the same beliefs. We don't get this with the Andorians based on how they were portrayed in ENT; they come off one-dimensional in what we are told on their racial views or anything that shows some diversity within the Andorian community.

    Again, this goes in line with the Klingons bad-mouthing Kate Vernon's character: While we don't get anything further on the Andorians and their views on race, we do get an idea that Klingons will use harsh language - gender specific in the language of the enemy - to save face.

    Based on what we know of Klingons: they like to fight, they do have women who usually hold equal or higher ranks, they seem to pretty much have the same complexions - although, there are some who are darker or lighter than others - and they usually make verbal curses in their own language. However, as stated earlier, the fact that Vernon's character made such an impact in a previous battle...means a couple of people on the opposing side have taken notice and that they are going to bad-mouth her in the language, albeit harsh language, that she is familiar with.

    Of course, based on the context, I'm sure the character plans on sending more photon torpedoes 'up their shaft.'
     
  8. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Congratulations for being a week late in the "Most Obvious Comeback Contest", but thanks for being on the show! :D


    If the Klingons used the N word to describe one of the characters, would that be considered acceptable in this film because the Klingons want "the appropriate way to offend us"?

    Nnnnnope.
     
  9. Tallguy

    Tallguy Commodore Commodore

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    Winner!
     
  10. Kruezerman

    Kruezerman Commodore Commodore

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    Please don't compare "n***er" to "bitch" again.

    Not even in the same league. Just don't.
     
  11. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    I think you really overreached here.

    One, 'Queen Bitch Whore' isn't in the same league as n*****.

    Two, I bet some filmmakers could get away with using it. Some filmmakers could sell their actors on the necessity of its use.
     
  12. urbankringle

    urbankringle Commodore Commodore

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    I think people are just a little oversensitive to the use of a few words. And by "a little" I mean way too damn much.

    Not just here, but society in general. Sure, words can hurt your feelings. Words can cause a person to doubt his self worth. But just like starting peewee football, if you don't get used to getting hit you'll never get used to getting hit. If a person doesn't grow a thick skin and learn to ignore people who talk trash, he will always be a victim.

    As a kid I was taught that you always stand straight, look a bully in the eye, and if he throws a punch you do your best to beat the crap out of him. (This does not apply to modern day gangs of bullies beating up on one kid, so don't even start). I was bullied as a kid, and even as an adult, but I have always stood my ground. I got right up in the bully's face and didn't back down. More times than not, the big bad bully gave up and walked away.

    Words are powerful things, but they only have the power that we personally give them. You are the master of your situation, and if you refuse to believe that the words people throw out can harm you, then you have built your own invisible armor.

    "Sticks and stones ... "

    It's true, people. Words can't hurt you if you don't let them.
     
  13. Crisp Crinkle

    Crisp Crinkle Admiral Admiral

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    One of my favorite Uhura lines:

     
  14. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Unfortunately, these shows take place in the 20th and 21st century, with a fandom that thinks Star Trek is on a mission to change the world. I still think the line works because it shows an alien enemy that obviously doesn't understand the culture they're in conflict with.

    Words can have an impact especially when used in concert with actions. It is unfortunate, but true.
     
  15. Joel_Kirk

    Joel_Kirk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I agree with this.

    And on further note: If "Star Trek" ever, in any capacity, had their characters use the n-word (which would be a huge, bold move) I would hope that it is followed up on as to 'why' it was being used and how is that individual or individuals going to learn that the archaic term is a 'no-no?'

    If Kate Vernon's character was called the n-word rather than "bitch" we would have to have A LOT of questions answered: Do all Klingons feel that way? Where did they get knowledge of that word, and do they know the history of said word? How does the human population involved in this war feel, especially the dark-skinned or even non-white folks?

    It'll have to be a responsible action, not just "Let's shake things up."

    Of course, that goes against my personal feelings of having a sudden discussion of race when it involves a black person or black people or dark-skinned people - something "Star Trek" tends to do.

    As was brought out, ST is written in the 20th and 21st century where is isn't always diverse behind-the-scenes (or even in front of) with these shows....and we still live in a society where there are those who benefit from certain skin privileges.
     
  16. Kruezerman

    Kruezerman Commodore Commodore

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    Just the simple fact that we can type out "bitch" but not "n****r" shows that some words are more hurtful and carry a lot more weight.

    Here's the thing though, whereas "n****r" is vehemently frowned upon by today's society, "bitch" is not. Now, I do not know what the general "woman's" view of "bitch" is, but we have seen from past Trek that it is still widely used as an insult. But, as others have said, we are not the scriptwriters, and no two scriptwriters are the same. The word can be used for multiple reasons for multiple meanings, it's up to the scripts to give us, either through telling or showing, that reason.
     
  17. beamMe

    beamMe Commodore

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    That word has a very specific meaning in one language; it isn't even really translatable into other languages. The Klingons probably wouldn't even know this word exists.
    "Queen", "bitch", "whore" - these words exist in other languages as well.

    So you can put that "comparison" back into the very dark place you pulled it out from.
     
  18. beamMe

    beamMe Commodore

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    "Bitch" always reminds me of a scene from Keeping up Appearances, where a dog owner comes up to Richard, who was just the minute before talking to his overbearing wife, and asks him: "Have you seen a bitch run past?"
    His reaction to this is gold. :)
     
  19. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

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    Have many women objected to this line?
     
  20. Mage

    Mage Commodore Commodore

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    Seriously people, give it a rest already.....
     
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