Discussion in 'Fan Productions' started by Linnear, Sep 24, 2012.
Old enough. How old are you?
I think the point is that using profanity, just because you can, is juvenile.
But if profanity is used purposefully, it can enhance the storytelling. Used to make a point, or in this case, to show how an enemy in time of war described an opponent, it can be a valid tool.
Dropping F-bombs just because you can isn't a tool, it just shows that the writer could have a better grasp of the language. It makes him a tool.
What I'm getting at is that we, the audience, do not determine when the story can and cannot use such words or tools. We are there to watch. Calling that woman the Queen Bitch showed us how badass she is. This is a positive thing showing a strong woman in command.
What I want is a human Star Trek, with all the imperfections. Others want this antiseptic, clean Trek where everyone is "perfect" in their eyes. To be honest, that completely negates the point of Star Trek, humanity exploring the stars together.
So who here has changed their minds and decided to watch / contribute to this film because of the saltier language? Anyone? That wasn't going to watch it before, I mean.
Because it looks like there at least a few people who were going to watch it that are considering changing their minds.
If words really don't matter as much as I keep getting told then why doesn't the whole thing sound like Pulp Fiction?
That said, http://lmgtfy.com/?q=benefits+to+swearing
(p.s. not going to lie, I think the whole line in question here would have been better with some cleverly inserted klingon. but it's not offensive as is. )
Because not everything is "Pulp Fiction".
It is weird how prudish and conservative Star Trek fans have become. I'm not for an "after dark" version of Trek, but I don't mind it acting grown up every now and then. It is a franchise that has told us about death on the scale of billions, shown us people being vaporized, burned to death and melted by the transporter, and situations that could have easily lead to rape.
Yet people are sweating a few swear words in a story about what was likely a devastating war. It really makes me go "what the fuck!"
I don't see the language being completely out of sorts, for example:
McCoy: "That green-blooded son of a bitch. It's his revenge for all those arguments he lost."
Kirk: "Klingon bastards, you've killed my son!"
Riker: "We're through running from these bastards!"
I don’t know if I’d say I’m prudish or not. (Some might.) I watch and enjoy shows with all kinds of content. And Axanar isn’t being made for ten year olds.
But in this specific case the line rang false to me. It sounded like “Hey, let’s use some really real real words here!” It just didn’t sound right. (Maybe it needs more? Dunno.)
I remember in Generations when Data said “Ohhhh, s***!” It was honestly note perfect. And I cringed because I figured since this worked so well they’d try it again in the next movie and do it badly. Kind of like how the swearing in The Voyage Home felt very organic and funny but it led to the swearing in The Final Frontier which sounded forced and like it was trying to get what TVH had.
OTOH, I’ve never heard swearing and thought “how grown up!”
It's not just generic swearing, it's misogynistic language. We can agree or disagree if it's appropriate dramatically, but let's be honest about what the kind of cursing it is.
If people are offended by a few words, fine. I have no problem with that. There are a lot of times I hear things in movies and tv that I think could be done better, but it seems like the words are placed there "just because."
Like the cable network shows that are all nice and clean during kiddie hours, but at 9:00 they go all "bullshit" and "g-ddamn." In most cases it's not necessary to add the extra little profane push--I don't think they need it at all--but they do it because they can.
For a Trek trailer to include "Queen Bitch Whore" is mild, in my opinion, compared to what is already out there.
Who here is old enough to remember Richard Pryor in his prime? If not, look up his 1974 album That Nxxxxr's Crazy. It was hilarious then, and people quoted parts of it in semi-polite society. That's an eye opener.
Like Lenny Bruce, Pryor knew exactly what he was doing and when and how to do it. Only so many people can be pioneers, and there's little shock value in such language any more.
Perhaps the fact that people are discussing the one line has less to do with how offensive it is or isn't but how little they have to be to say about the script otherwise.
This offends me.
The effectiveness of curse words is inversely proportional to how often they are used. Used as a pause in speech, (instead of, say, 'uh...') and they convey that the speaker is crude, nothing more. Used once in three movies (or less) and they punch like a heavyweight champion.
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner!
I can't find any listing for a Pryor album named that.
But I doubt that if aliens came to the planet Earth, they would ask what the appropriate way to offend us is. The whole point of an insult is to insult someone.
It's a sloppy insult, which would stand to reason for a race that doesn't have English as its first (or second or third) language. Plus, it is a bit of grudging respect because they know who she is well enough to take the time to insult her.
People have every right to be offended by it but I honestly don't understand being offended by it. YMMV.
I've thought about it. I'm not offended. I just don't like it. There's a difference, I think.
The line was written to get a reaction. It got one.
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