Star Trek and Homosexuality

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by jpch, Mar 8, 2012.

  1. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    I was one who said writing "gay scenes" would be difficult. I say this because outside of this wonderful forum, are lots of people who write scripts, who wouldn't even know where to begin. That's what I mean. To you and I, and many here, it's simple. It's easy, but for those folks (and they're all over the place. Look at a few years ago for an example of how gay people were written in TV shows), it's some kind of strange puzzle, and they just don't get it. It's a bit of a catch-22, really. Until people realize that it's no big deal for people of the same sex to be in love with one another, and that their love is just as real and heartfelt as any other love, folks aren't really going to understand. At the same time, without the ability to write shows with genuine, real gay people in real relationships, people won't really know that important fact.

    Then you get the suits involved. Every once in a while you get someone who is willing to take a risk, but usually it's all about not offending the primary audience, which is usually males 25-50 years of age.
     
  2. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They are not perfect... but we don't need 'scientists' shooting at things they know nothing about to know this - it's exactly why the rest of the creatures attacked them in response.
    To that end, Janeway (and even the others) were different than Harem (who utterly lost it).

    Besides, I'm sick of people constantly saying Trek characters are 'perfect'.
    Hardly... they behave in a much more civil capacity and don't behave like immature brats like a lot of the general population does today.
    It's refined behavior (and a lot better if you ask me).
    Degrading them to early 21st century humans is degrading in it's own right.
     
  3. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There are plenty of Hollywood writers who've written gay characters—especially in recent years—who have no trouble doing it, and have done it for shows both on the air and already cancelled.
     
  4. Collingwood Nick

    Collingwood Nick Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, but only if it's done right. Star Trek doesn't need a 'token' gay the way you get 'token' black guys or asians or other ethnics in other tv shows.

    Like those advertisements you see for IT services or accountants or whatever thats shows a whole collection of individuals - a large black guy who is smiling, a woman usually asian who has glasses and is smiling, a young indian man who is smiling, a hot blonde woman who is smiling, and just to prove they are not reverse racist a weedy white guy who looks like a nerd and is smiling. Because everyone knows that large corporations are run by ethnically diverse smiling people who are young and trendy, not old white men.

    What I am trying to say is Trek needs a character who is gay, not a gay character, if you follow me
     
  5. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Makes perfect sense to me, and I totally agree that is how it should be done as well.

    What about Mayweather? Wasn't his only purpose on ENT to be the 'black cast member'? :)
     
  6. So basically, if it were up to the writers, it would have happened, but Berman and the studio were cowards.

    Then again, this is the guy (Berman) who actually had an edict that the music in Star Trek had to be as drab and non-noticeable as possible, always in the same dull style. So it's not surprising.

    I imagine a character moving too quickly on screen would have scared Berman.
     
  7. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    :guffaw: :guffaw: :guffaw:
     
  8. horatio83

    horatio83 Commodore Commodore

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    Under Berman's rule plenty of episodes dealt with sexuality. Under Roddenberry, Bennett or JJA on the other hand: nada.
    So yeah, Berman bashers gotta try harder.
     
  9. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    But not homosexuality.

    :)
     
  10. WillsBabe

    WillsBabe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Do you mean in The Outcast? Maybe they would have if Soren had been played by a man.
     
  11. DAYoung

    DAYoung Commander Red Shirt

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    One of our broadsheet newspapers ran a story on Star Trek and homosexuality, quoting Braga's regret.

    For interest's sake, my thoughts in reply are here. I might actually write a column about it (or referring to it, at least).
     
  12. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    "... the characters bang on about their enlightened civilization: no hunger, no food, no war."

    Interesting combination.

    :lol::lol: (I'm sorry) :lol::lol:
     
  13. Ian Keldon

    Ian Keldon Fleet Captain

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    "The Host"
    "Rejoined"
    several MU eps
     
  14. DAYoung

    DAYoung Commander Red Shirt

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    Heh. Nicely spotted. And now fixed.

    See what happens without a subeditor...
     
  15. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    In the Host, Riker's girlfriend was literally a girl. She was part of a androgynous society, but the dialog made clear she was female. There was no homosexuality in the episode.

    From Rejoined, Former Dax joining Torias Dax was male. And former Khan joining Nilani Kahn was female, They were married to each other and presumably had lots of heterosexual sex with each other. Jadzia Dax and Lenara Kahn (two females) did have attraction for each other, but was it because of their current sexual orientations, or their previous heterosexual relationship? They did exchanged in a "for old times sake" kiss, but did not engage in sex.

    The impression I received from the mirror Attendant Kira, was that her bisexuality was a power game, and not a expression of orientation.

    Strictly speaking, she wasn't gay.

    :)
     
  16. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    "The Host" was an interesting concept, but when Soren asks Riker about sexual organs he gets all embarrassed. I would have thought a strapping, virile man like him would take opportunity to big himself (and his gender) up. There wasn't anything about homosexuality in that episode, but rather sexual identity.

    "Rejoined" wasn't about a same-sex relationship, but rather past love and social taboo for becoming involved with the partner of a former Host. Dax and Kahn just happened to both be in female bodies. Had they met when Curzon had been Host then I would see the same thing happening.

    As for the Mirror Universe, they did touch on it (with Ezri and also Leeta). But when it comes to the Intendent, she was in love with herself, and also used sex as a weapon--which makes anyone fair game.
     
  17. Miss Lemon

    Miss Lemon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That was the strong point of this episode. Show two women in love with eachother but not make a fuss about the gay factor.
     
  18. DAYoung

    DAYoung Commander Red Shirt

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    I suspect you're right about this.

    But it'd still be brave for Trek to have same-sex couples (or triples and quadruples, for the Denubulans out there). Not female bodies with sexless slugs, not crazed bisexual control freaks, just couples who happen to be the same sex.

    Phase II did it, and it didn't detract from the story at all. I can't say I was entirely comfortable with it, but I don't see this as a reason not to do it.
     
  19. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The Host dealt with a response from Beverly, who rejected her lover because its new host was female.
     
  20. Miss Lemon

    Miss Lemon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm not too pleased about the crazed bisexuals either. Not my idea of a good role model. But then again, even some open-minded people in this thread seem to think being bisexual equals not being able to being in a committed relationship.