Star Trek and Homosexuality

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by jpch, Mar 8, 2012.

  1. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    I definitely agree, Kira had more chemistry with Jadzia, then with anyone else. The scene in the Holosuite at the Trill Spa, I really got the impression Kira was more jealous of the Trill Buff Boys being around taking Jadzia's attention away, then that she was a stick in the mud that didn't know how to relax and enjoy herself :alienblush:

    Yes, Odo and Lwaxana were truly awesome in her first DS9 episode, that's actually probably my favorite "Romance of the Week" Trek episodes (though the writers really did some awful plots for her return episodes :( ). I definitely would've liked to see more episodes like that one with Lwaxana and Odo.
     
  2. Miss Lemon

    Miss Lemon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The Forsaken is my favourite Lwaxana episode. It's sad that most other writers just didn't know what to do with her and used her merely for comic relief. She had so much more potential.
     
  3. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    In "The Host", I always thought that it was because of the uncertainty of what might come next that had Beverly turn away from Odan. She had already had him in two hosts, a third (and also the possibility of a fourth, etc) could just be too much for her to really deal with.

    We all know that Beverly is heterosexual (she has the uber-annoying son to prove that) so for her a relationship with a female host--even of a being she truely cared for--was just a step too far for her.

    That's how I always viewed the episode--although DS9 would later go on with aspects of Trill society that would make Odan/Riker's relationship a taboo subject.

    Edit - An idea had just occured to me. I think "The Host" could have been a far more interesting episode (with longer-reaching consequences) if it had been Picard that had volunteered to host Odan. But that's probably a discussion for another thread.
     
  4. Butters

    Butters Captain Captain

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    There have been many gay characters in Trek.

    Xon was gay. Captain Desoto was gay. Ensign Sonya Gomez was gay. Mr Mot was Omni, Lt Hawk was gay. The bearded guy that took the wheel on the Holodeck HMS Enterprise during Worf's promotion to commander was gay. To name just handful.

    They just didn't go on about it ;)
     
  5. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Beverly didn't want Odan because the new host was a woman and sex is an important part of any relationship. As a heterosexual woman, Beverly knew that that component of their relationship would not fulfil her and it would ultimately mean she could not be a fully happy woman.

    It isn't fricking rocket science.
     
  6. Misfit Toy

    Misfit Toy Caped Trek Mod Admiral

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    No, it isn't. It's an opinion. Which means pretty much zilch to anyone else.
     
  7. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    After meeting the the female Odan, her reaction was pretty cool and detached. Later she even admitted to her, that it was too much.

    At this point, it gets interesting because the viewer is left to decide for themselves whether she meant Odan being female, or the frequent changing of bodies.

    Considering how her face changed when she saw it was female, it's easy to conclude that Beverly had a strong sexual preference.

    The thing is, the female Odan wanted to pursue a relationship Beverly- and she did kiss her hand affectionately, which is pretty 'big' for TNG, IMO.
     
  8. Trek Survivor

    Trek Survivor Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    This, thank you!

    It really annoys me when people say "oh, Beverley was obviously anti-lesbian in this scene" or that it showed intolerance, just because she didn't feel PERSONALLY that she wanted a lesbian relationship.

    There are plenty of things I don't want for myself, or have no attraction to, but am fine with others pursuing. Doesn't mean I am "anti" any of them, they are just not for me.

    Just because somebody does NOT want a gay relationship, doesn't mean they are "anti-gay"....
     
  9. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes... I agree that being seemingly 'disappointed' with the new host being a woman probably put a damp on how we saw Beverly as a person.
    It was a bit hypocritical after all of her that she was able to sleep with Riker (albeit with 'some' persuasion) and not with Odan's female host though.
    However, we can also view it in a manner that seeing the female host struck her at how she behaved in a hypocritical manner (by sleeping with Riker while the ambassador was in his body) - but it does indicate her sexual orientation was leaning very strongly in the direction of the opposite sex (hence less inhibition).
     
  10. Destructor

    Destructor Commodore Commodore

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    Not really. Beverly is a heterosexual woman. Of course she'd find it difficult to find her lover had suddenly changed genders. When we ask for gay characters on Trek we're not asking that everyone be gay- just someone.
     
  11. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not what I meant directly, accompanied by a poor choice of words.
    I meant that if sexual attraction played a big part in her relationship and decision making (as it's implied in the end), why sleep with Riker in the first place?
    Been some time after I watched the episode, but even though Riker was a willing recipient of the symbiote, that wouldn't automatically transfer to meaning that Beverly would be sexually attracted to him unless that this is what was implied under 'love transcends all' (in which case, it was poorly executed as it failed to transcend the same sex in the end).

    It was more of chastising of the episode's makers who felt it was fine for her to hop from one guy to the next because Odan's consciousness was in their bodies (which is understandable to a degree), but couldn't even have Beverly say something along the lines that she's not attracted to the same sex and that it was already difficult enough to 'jump' to Riker.
    Plus her speech about how humans aren't quite there yet in adjusting to such transitions... she could have said that 'certain' humans like her aren't quite there yet (there probably would be others that are - she made a rather big generalization).
     
  12. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    of course the more shocking aspect of that episode is that Crusher basically rapes an unconscious Riker.
     
  13. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    IMO, this episode was quiet and the content slipped by--it wasn't hyped to be a controversial episode.

    So when Beverly reacted to Odan being female, it was--normal. She's female, Odan was male-she was disappointed when the new Odan was female.

    Later, when looking back at this episode and Beverly's reaction, then a fan might see, 'hey.. Beverly rejected Odan because she was heterosexual'-- as simple as that. Nothing wrong with it.

    The credit goes to discussion boards and blogs that explore these scenes a little deeper than a magazine would.

    Now, her reaction goes up for debate because things like this are not casually discussed onscreen, except for brief moments like DS9's Badda Badda Bing, and the Lincoln/Uhura bit in TOS.

    So fans have their own interpretation of that scene.

    Beverly's speech is interesting, somewhat a let down because--up until that time, all you heard about humans were that they didn't judge by outward appearance anymore, uhuh.

    They do--and they have preferences, they just don't discuss them--ever. :lol:

    Well, except ironically, for The Host. Just without the explicit words.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2012
  14. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    My opinion is that Star Trek and the spinoffs don't have homosexuality. All characters are heterosexual.

    If they ever do another Star Trek movie or series, they should have nudity and simulated sex, and this includes all varieties. Kirk/Spock should be canon, especially in the Abrams version, where it is impossible to tell why these two men should be friends, except that Leonard Nimoy read the script out loud. But if we get rid of Abrams, we could have the gay characters be someone else, like Scotty.
     
  15. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Kirk/Spock IS canon. See thread in TOS forum

    Abrams Trek is the slashiest ever, I think they have subtext just standing next to each other.
     
  16. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'd vote for Chris Pine to spend at least a third of the next film in just his underwear again!
    :drool::drool::drool:
     
  17. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You should visit the gushing thread Bry Sinclair. It will make you want that even more.
     
  18. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    *nods in agreement*
     
  19. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    :guffaw::guffaw::guffaw:

    Anyways, back to the important discussion.
     
  20. Miss Lemon

    Miss Lemon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Awww, you just enjoy the gushing thread in secret, Bry_Sinclair. We won't tell anyone.