ST XI ships

Discussion in 'Trek Tech' started by Timo, Oct 16, 2008.

  1. shipfisher

    shipfisher Commander Red Shirt

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    Nice to have someone thinking along the same lines, though as you say, we may be the ones off the mark. The alternate idea that the Kelvin has only one ventral nacelle and a big deflector hoisted up well above the main saucer is, well, truly "fugly" IMO, both in looks and possibly dynamics.
     
  2. Herkimer Jitty

    Herkimer Jitty Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Personally, I think they're going to stick with what we know, IE, the bussards aren't going to be anything but amber or red. I think the ship would look far less ugly in motion (And indeed having visualized this in my mind, this holds true).
     
  3. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    A mishmash of design elements by someone who clearly doesn't know the technological progression as shown in the various series and movies.

    It's like putting a whale-tail spoiler on a Model T and sticking the monstrosity in an episode of "Gunsmoke".
     
  4. JuanBolio

    JuanBolio Admiral Admiral

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    Nah, its not that bad. We don't even have a good shot to go on yet, not the Enterprise for comparison.
     
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    The idea behind the "turbines" in the trailer was to be the machinery behind the red nacelle domes, the source of the spinning light patterns we all know and love. The ship was under construction, so the nacelles weren't complete, and the interior machinery was exposed.

    The so-called "eye" looks almost exactly like the TMP Enterprise's deflector dish. Given that there's a strong TMP influence on the designs, I think it has to be a deflector.

    How can the same instrument both deflect interstellar matter and suck it up at the same time?

    Why? There's no up or down in space, except relative to the ship interior. We've seen in First Contact and ENT that the gravity field doesn't extend past the hull (even though that makes absolutely no physical sense). So why is an engineering hull "above" the saucer any different dynamically from an engineering hull "below" it? For that matter, remember that Jefferies's original design sketch for the Enterprise did, in fact, have the engineering hull above the saucer and the nacelles below it. The Kelvin appears to be a cross between that original orientation and the Franz Joseph Saladin or Hermes class.
     
  6. shipfisher

    shipfisher Commander Red Shirt

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    I suppose I was thinking of using the deflector to repel/ionize interstellar matter/gas with a collector of suitable geometry (heck, probably still a dome) mounted directly behind it, drawing ionized gas in laterally around the plume of cleared space directly in the ship's path. When you consider that the collection area involved here could be on the order of many km in diameter (hundreds, thousands?), would the usual def dish/ram scoop forward angle offset of a few dozen metres be a considerably different situation?

    The other option is a dual mode device which wouldn't perform deflection and collection operations concurrently, however in saying that, I've always wondered about a single ram scoop unit that would both ionize and collect gas and assumed that the deflector might be providing the ionizing radiation that made the collection cycle work in any case.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2008
  7. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    ...'Course, if you are going to manipulate the flight paths of gas molecules, why not manipulate them so that the desired percentage flies into your collector and the desired percentage misses the ship? One and the same device might be the economical way of doing that.

    If the upper protrusion of the Kelvin is just a stubby pod and not an elongated nacelle, we might argue that this is the "canonical" take on Hermes and Saladin classes (as the shape roughly matches the fuzzy silhouettes we saw on the displays of the TOS movie bridges, much like the movie display versions of NCC-1701 are fuzzy matches for the real thing), and that NCC-514 just received a big dorsal sensor pod at some point of her service life, along with a name change from the martial Rahman to the scientific Kelvin plus the additional letter O to specify an Observation role. :cool:

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  8. jolau

    jolau Captain Captain

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    Perhaps it's not a number 0 in that registry number but in fact the letter O
     
  9. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Experts on fonts would probably immediately tell us that an O would have to be wider than the onscreen digit 0. Then again, there are more fonts out there than there are typewriters even today; we really couldn't say anything definite about fictional 23rd century fonts.

    Certainly a TAS-style descriptive letter would be pretty cool, at least to my perverted mind. It would also be consistent with the onscreen appearances of three-digit registries, none of which have had the preceding zero so far. And as said, I'd love to continue believing in NCC-514, USS Rahman, in addition to believing in this new old ship.

    I wonder if we will learn the class of the Kelvin in the movie? That'd be a first, really...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  10. MarianLH

    MarianLH Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It isn't 1982 anymore; they know we're interested in these things. The class name may not be in the movie, but I'm sure it'll be published in some way. It didn't take too long for "Sovereign class" to become known. Unlike the 9(?) year gap between Star Trek II and the first use of the term Miranda.


    Marian
     
  11. EJD1984

    EJD1984 Commander Red Shirt

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    I've just noticed a possible new design astetic with the Kelvin (and possibility the Enterprise as well).

    There doesn't appear to be any windows along the saucer's edge.

    Though in the closeup of the Kelvin attack, there seems to be a few small windows on the deck(s) just below the bridge.
     
  12. GodThingFormerly

    GodThingFormerly A Different Kind of Asshole

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    Indeed, but notice that the Art Deco striping added by ST:TMP visual effects art director Richard Taylor to the rim of the NCC-1701 Refit's saucer also makes an appearance on the Kelvin. I wonder how many other design elements have Abrams and company cherry-picked from earlier - and by definition superior - Trek conceptual illustrators. :rolleyes:

    TGT
     
  13. EJD1984

    EJD1984 Commander Red Shirt

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    I noticed that "striping" on the Kelvin as well (in the -A refit, it was part of the deflector grid). Though in the teaser, it seems to be gone from the Enterprise, as well as any form of windows.

    I know that in the future windows may be seen as a luxury and unnecessary, but from a big screen movie perspective, you somewhat need them for visual detail.
     
  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^^But the E in the teaser trailer is "under construction," so it wouldn't have its racing stripes painted on yet. ;)
     
  15. Harry

    Harry Captain Captain

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    Some information

    Specifically, that this is a ship from before Kirk. Allegedly, Kirk's dad is the XO of the Kelvin, and it's fighting Romulans. Based on the age of George Kirk's actor, I'd guesstimate the scenes with the Kelvin take place in the late 2220s.

    The beauty of this design is that it actually does seem to fit very nicely in the established timeline. Call em crazy, but that saucer shape does have the sharp edges and 'military' look that I associate with early 23rd century stuff (see Baton Rouge).
     
  16. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    Do these twits know the reason for having a timeline?
     
  17. darkshadow0001

    darkshadow0001 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's in the alternate universe.
     
  18. shipfisher

    shipfisher Commander Red Shirt

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    Funny you should mention the Baton Rouge class. There's a "Vance's Toolkit" kitbash over in the Trek Art section here called the "USS Andropov" which is an over/under nacelle design based on the Baton Rouge. I first saw it after reading the AICN report of Trek XI footage showing an over/under nacelle ship. I assumed the ship reported by AICN was the Kelvin and thought the Andropov would probably look pretty close to the pre-TOS ship described.

    I know that many are assuming a one ventral nacelle/dorsal deflector pod layout for the Kelvin, which may well be correct, but I think the AICN correspondent may have got a better look at the Kelvin than we have yet.
     
  19. JuanBolio

    JuanBolio Admiral Admiral

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    Very little of the timeline or design aesthetic outside of on-screen canon has been established.
     
  20. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    NCC-0514 (Starship class 05, production vehicle 14)?

    Sure it conflicts with the registry of the Grissom, but hardly anyone liked that ship anyway...
    [​IMG]