Spoiler whore's thread! (enter at your own risk)

Discussion in 'Battlestar Galactica & Caprica' started by Caprica_Six, Sep 1, 2005.

  1. bigdaddy

    bigdaddy Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^

    Oh my god, that actually makes sense for having a Cylon be the final Cylon!

    However I think the numbers were just pulled out of the air to tell the story in the first few seasons.
     
  2. Peacemaker

    Peacemaker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    True, but they sorta backed themselves into a corner this season by revealing the exact numbers of the Seven.

    It just suddenly occurred to me that if the Final Five are actually exploring the Cycle of Time, then it would make sense that, if Three thinks the Fifth is among the Cylons, that, in light of Douglas' comments, the Four must have gone to the Colonies and the Fifth, like the 13th tribe went elsewhere - namely it found the Cylons that had left the Colonies.

    From this, I speculated that may well be the key to Cylon evolution. If the Four were exploring what it means to be human by going to the Colonies, maybe the Fifth decided to explore what it means to be Cylon by living among the Cylons.

    Since the 13th tribe evolved into the inhabitants of Earth (Cylons of the "Five Five" type - hereafter F5 type), then it seems to me to make sense that in the process of exploring what it means to be human, it somehow, someway participated in Cylon evolution. It may be what they think of as their "God" - not just the abstract God (the One Who Cannot Be Named), but maybe the Cylons somehow got the idea that it (the Final Cylon) is God. Since God is said to have made man in His own image, then maybe it made Cylon skinjobs in its image (or the Cylons began making themselves into its image, either way could work). Then, the Cylons, against the will of the one we call the Final Cylon, decided, instead of being friends with humanity, to destroy humanity. Consequently, that's why the Final Cylon is said in the Prime Hybrid's prophecy to be "in the darkness, seeking redemption that will only come in the howl of suffering." It (unwittingly) set off the series of events that led to the destruction of humanity (like Baltar on the Colonies) in its efforts to understand what it means to be Cylon. It is therefore hiding somewhere, either among the Cylons (which seems to me to be rather odd if true) or using a new face - maybe taking the body of what would have been Number 7 and leaving the Cylons to hide among the Colonists, or being the actual Number 1 with the other numbers being changed by Cavil to hide the truth. Therefore, that could account for why Three thinks it is among the Cylons - it was at one time, but it has either taken a new face (one that doesn't look like the one in her visions) or its face is unknown (having been wiped from Cylon perception after Cavil's little "revolution," so it is actually among the Colonists or elsewhere altogether (if a physical entity) - unknown to anybody, and not hearing the music, since it never "switched off" its identity, which was the reason the music was needed to "reactivate" the Four.

    One of the things that makes me think that Cavil isn't telling the whole truth and that the Final Cylon is the real Number 1 is his name. Just as Gina's last name meant "resurrection," Cavil's name has a meaning too. The word means to quibble, to offer petty objections. Why would a Cylon take such a name for itself, and why would it be Number 1? It makes sense, at least to me, that it may mean that it "caviled" with the real Number 1, and consequently, just as it got its way against the Twos, Sixes, and Eights in S4, it may well have gone against its wishes and tried to get rid of it, which would account for his animosity toward the whole concept of finding the Final Five. Maybe he's met one - the one we call the Final Cylon - and he caviled with it and won the argument, maybe by staging his own revolution or keeping it isolated from the others somehow, maybe in a virtual prison (boxing it). It got out, and, like the Twos, Sixes, and Eights, left the Cylons and joined with the Colonists, unbeknownst to any of the others, and probably before they came online. Cavil then took the Number one for itself, got rid of the body, and the others came online. Somehow the Final Cylon escaped and was downloaded into body 7 and then, before more copies could be made, escaped and hid among the Colonists. After the attack, it blamed itself for what happened, and has been seeking redemption ever since.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2008
  3. Evil_Admiral

    Evil_Admiral Commodore Commodore

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    But what about the bath-tub God from Razor?
     
  4. Peacemaker

    Peacemaker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It and the Guardians are the first examples of the cycle of time at work among the Cylons. They are the first major split among the ranks of the Colonial Cylons. Remember, they left at about the same time as the upgrade to the next models began.

    IMO, the Final Cylon may have found that group of Cylons. The majority of the Cylons looked to it as their "god," and the Guardians left when the purges began.

    I see some parallels here in the internal conflict now going on among the Colonists between Baltar's faction and the Polytheists (in which I include the nominalists and atheists as well). Baltar strikes me as being like the Prime Hybrid and his followers are like the Guardians.

    I see the Final Cylon as arriving among the Cylons after the war and setting about its plan to upgrade them all to humanlike models. The end result is the creation of multiple humantypes - multiple "gods" as it were. So, on the one level the religion of the Cylons is monotheistic, but at another level it's polytheistic, insofar as we follow the conflict between the one god and the many and the cycle of time.

    Think about it. The Cylons have created a "god," in the Prime Hybrid. But then they meet an even more advanced type of Cylon, the "Final Cylon." So, they start following after it. Eventually, it sets about upgrading the Cylons in its own image. The Guardians and the Prime Hybrid leave. Meanwhile, the skinjobs develop in the image of the "Final" Cylon, who is now the de facto First Cylon as well. Then, perhaps, there is some sort of revolution when Cavil and the others decide to exceed the purpose of the "Final" Cylon and turn to a project to eliminate humanity itself. They may eliminate that Cylon, but it downloads into Body Number 7 and then escapes, destroying all the copies of that model in the process. Emerging from this entire process is a Cylon race that is composed of 7 functional skinjobs, Centurions whose free will is suppressed, hybrids who are baseships too, and fighters who are like animals - all following some sort of monotheistic religion but, in reality, they drove out the "god" (the Final Cylon) and replaced it with themselves.

    Now, that actually makes sense to me in light of the way the cycle of time seems to work - could be wrong of course, and probably am on several points, but the basic point may be right in view of what Douglas said - 4 went to the Colonies, so it stands to reason the Fifth found the Cylons, and, if that's correct, it is likely responsible for whatever happened during that unknown period in Colonial Cylon history, the period in which they rather quickly evolved from mechanical to "human."
     
  5. Wouter2

    Wouter2 Captain Captain

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    http://www.aintitcool.com/node/38471

    Aaron Douglas is at it again, though he doesn't say much that hasn't been said or implied before. "Earth, in the scriptures, is the Cylon homeworld. "
     
  6. bigdaddy

    bigdaddy Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Which makes no sense, they just realized this now after years of looking for Earth?
     
  7. Peacemaker

    Peacemaker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This bit sounded odd:

    So, is he saying that in the background, there was dialog to this effect? If so, maybe somebody that DVR'd it and still has it can have a listen. I don't recall that, but then I only watched it twice.
     
  8. bigdaddy

    bigdaddy Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Sounds really stupid, but fits the countless info we have been getting.
     
  9. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    I don't know. Aaron Douglas hasn't exactly been reliable as a source of spoiler information as of late. Remember that nonsense about Sci-Fi pushing the rest of the episodes even further back?
     
  10. Wouter2

    Wouter2 Captain Captain

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    Douglas was either confused about what ended up in 4x12 (4x10) "Revelations", and what was edited out to 4x13 (4x11) "Sometimes a great notion", or pretended to be confused to be able to give away spoilers in a casual way.

    This dialogue and so on was shot together with "Revelations" (of which "sometimes a great notion" is basically part 2 of 2), but it is yet to be broadcast.

    For those who doubt his words, see more info here: http://syfyportal.com/news425407.html
    So, even more spoilers there. And what Douglas said - it's very likely to be true, perhaps said in a bit confusing manner, but true.

    I have no idea how it it possible that the colonials don't know what is in their own scriptures, wonder how they will explain that one, but this particular tidbit was already leaked way earlier by the "ask Ausiello" column, and there is no indication that info also came from Douglas, at the time.
     
  11. Peacemaker

    Peacemaker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Hmmm, so if this is "Earth 1" and "Earth 2" is the planet we're on right now, that sounds very like they are doing their own version of the Terra story in TOS after all...only in TOS, Galactica averted the destruction of that civilization; here, they're too late. In that event, they aren't in orbit around the planet we saw at the end of Crossroads 2, rather they are orbiting another planet altogether since "Earth" qua Earth is the planet we're on right now according to that article. Hmmm, I, for one, am going to be looking carefully at the planet, if we get to see it from orbit, to confirm that bit.
     
  12. Wouter2

    Wouter2 Captain Captain

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    We don't get a good view from orbit, its landmasses are covered by clouds in the shots we do get. That's a hint in itself, as the planet in "Crossroads" was made very easy to recognise as our own.
     
  13. A Clockwork Lim

    A Clockwork Lim Lieutenant Commander

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    That pretty much coincides exactly with my original theory about the show.

    Namely that the original Cylons were AIs put aboard a colonization ship from Earth to watch over the crew as they cryogenically slept on their ride to what would become Kobol. Along the way, the AIs evolved a bit, perhaps adapting personalities based upon the Western Zodiac (the model numbers for the skinjobs and their personalities are very, very similar in that regard) including the rarely-known 13th sign, essentially becoming the "lords of Kobol" upon their arrival.

    Once there, these lords helped the colonists build their civilization. Taking the role of teachers and architects of the society. Until SomethingBad(tm) happens, perhaps with the 13th Lord taking a more evil bent. They expel and ban the 13th Lord of Kobol (who eventually meets the lesser versions of Cylons much later, becoming their god) while the others leave to form the Twelve Colonies. The Thirteen Tribe, the one that was under the sway of the rogue Lord, abandons them and attempts to return to their original homeworld, Earth. Which, of course, the 13th Lord had returned to and destroyed (either before or after the Thirteenth Tribe returned). Note that this explains why the Thirteenth Tribe may have left a Cylon boobytrap behind along the way, fearful of the 13th Lord following them.

    Time passes. Memories fade. The 13th Lord quietly grows in power after meeting the lesser Cylons the New Colonists created to serve them.

    However, he was still rather upset about being ostricized from Kobol and wanted to get back at his fellow Lords. Perhaps his first attempt was to quietly infiltrate the colonies in an attempt to subjucate the original lords. Or perhaps he just created the skinjob version of Cylon based upon them and had them replaced (their original purpose). And maybe, just maybe, five of them were too wily for him. So he hatched a new plan: Genocide.

    And, well, the theory just goes from there. It seems to fit most of what I've seen in the series up til now.
     
  14. flux_29

    flux_29 Commodore Commodore

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    Any spoilers as to what will happen to the final four now they've been outed?
     
  15. Wouter2

    Wouter2 Captain Captain

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    A leaked call sheet for "a disquiet follows my soul" (second ep) gives the impression that at least Tigh remains in function. The sheet mentions Adama "giving coordinates to Tigh", which seems to imply he is still an officer. Not 100% certain though, I guess.
     
  16. flux_29

    flux_29 Commodore Commodore

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    does it say anything else?
     
  17. Wouter2

    Wouter2 Captain Captain

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    Not much. There is a scene between Zarek and Adama in the brig (probably Adama put him there because he was spreading unrest in the fleet, after "Earth" was found and turned out to be disappointing). Also, a scene between Adama and Roslin where they "don"t care" (not sure about what, may be about the unrest in the fleet or what people are thinking about them).

    From the teaser shown at ComicCon (still not leaked though), it looks like Zarek will mount a coup against the Adamas and Roslin at some point in S4.5
     
  18. bigdaddy

    bigdaddy Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think the people want Zarek released, and blah blah and Adama doesn't give a damn because he's a terrorist.

    However Zarek is the only one who was voted into office, so I would be on his side of the civil war.
     
  19. Wouter2

    Wouter2 Captain Captain

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    Actually, Baltar was the one voted into office, allthough Zarek does have a point (as Baltar's vice-president, untainted by Cylon collaboration). I would wait to see the specific circumstances though, before taking sides.
     
  20. lorelai2112

    lorelai2112 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Zarek also got elected by the survivers of his colony to the Quorum where he served for 9 months before becoming Baltar's VP.