Discussion in 'Battlestar Galactica & Caprica' started by Caprica_Six, Sep 1, 2005.
If it happens in 411 wouldn't everything we know indicate it's Starbuck?
Complete gut instinct here: I reckon it was someone in that final tracking shot, and that there was probably one more bit to that scene.
Directly after the shot of the bridge, one of them turns around and says, "So yeah, it's me. I'm the Final Cylon."
Tigh exclaims "You're the fifth?!"
And his eye emotes. Cut to black.
What Aaron Douglas said was that it was the last thing shot before the strike. The last episode filmed before that strike was "Sometimes a great notion", so the reveal is likely there (this was at least the plan before the series got a season 4.5 to finish the story, but from other recent comments, from Mark Stein, it looks like the final Cylon will be revealed quickly in S4.5).
While Starbuck is a very mysterious character since her miraculous return, and admittedly an almost perfect Cylon at first sight, certainly not everything we know indicates it's her. She's standing right there when D'Anna makes eye contact with Tigh and Tory, for one, but D'Anna is not interested in her (the whole "four in the fleet" thing). And she's also in the last supper picture; we know what RDM has said about that. Olmos also mentioned that they had, at an episode filmed well after the strike, gotten to understand a little about what had happened to Starbuck, and that it wasn't an "uplifting" understanding. If she had been revealed as final cylon already before the strike (in filming), then presumably they should have had a full understanding already.
What Tigh said is also not necessarily from the scene where the identity of the 5th is revealed; it could be taken from a later episode (there must have been some material fropm further in S4.5 available when that teaser was made). It could be that, say, D'Anna tells Tyrol and co who it is, without the 5th actually being present at the scene.
Yeha we can find out in the next episodes, but Tigh could easily find out in the last episode and go "You're the fifth?!"
i still wouldnt be suprised if it is gaeta and danna had her own reasons for not revealing there was another cylon in the fleet.
he was nervous as all heck when she interviewed him.. perhaps he knew she was a cylon.
he was around helping baltar on the cylon detector and had a back ground interestingly enough in bio genetics.
I think the radioactive dirt they were scanning with the gieger counter is the final cylon.
Makes more sense than Boomer.
So, assuming no one was lying:
(i) The 5th is NOT in the Fleet (as of Revelations).
(ii) The 5th is NOT in the LS photo (confirmed by Moore on two occasions).
(iii) Adama is a Cylon.
Aside from Joseph or Carolanne, there's simply NO way to reconcile these three statements. Right?
Assuming Leoben was not lying, at an occasion where he had plenty of reason to do so (he was a cylon agent after all, why not sow a bit of mistrust right where it hurts), seems very unwise, though. He did, in fact, lie in that very episode about the nuclear bomb he had supposedly hidden in the fleet.
Whether D'Anna and RDM had also good reasons to lie when they made their respective statements, is another matter. Circumstances are quite a bit different though. At least RDM can hardly lie IMO about this mystery they have been building up for a long time, and I wouldn't know why D'Anna would be lying at a time when she is quite in charge of the situation.
Deanna might have lied if the fifth is Hera. Hera can't make the decision for herself to join the cylons, and Deanna's not an idiot. She knows the colonials aren't going to hand over a baby. I'm not saying it is Hera necessarily, but that would make sense with Deanna claiming she only wanted the four.
Thing is on that one, in the vision with Baltar and Six in the Opera House with Hera, they look up, Hera in their arms, and all five are staring down from the balcony. Assuming that one of them isn't Hera as an adult, it can't be Hera.
I'm thinking, however, that since they take her into the Opera House auditorium where the Five are located, Hera may be destined to replace one of the Final Five or be added to their number. Maybe one of them will give it's life to save the day, and Hera is its replacement.
That said, Six said she felt like she had to protect Hera. Why? Is one (or more) of the Five opposed to Hera in some way?
I'm hoping that in 4.5 the Five start to recover their memories. That would seem to be the quickest, easiest way to do the explanation of what happened on Earth. If the Five have been to Earth, and since it's so far away, it stands to reason that they are probably from Earth too. If so, then they know what happened. I'm still of the opinion that the Final Cylon has likely known who and what it is all along, so it knows the whole story. Alternatively, it may take all Five of them being together to trigger the recovery of their memories. Either that, or the Viper knows something. If it's Cylon technology, it stands to reason it's "alive" too, just like the rest of Cylon technology. Maybe it's the key to them being able to do that. After all, they heard the music when the Viper arrived in the nebula; they heard it a second time after the Viper had "changed" in the landing pod. So maybe the Viper is the key to identifying either the Final Cylon or/and triggering the complete recovery of the Four's memories.
And that's your problem, you think they are telling the truth.
And maybe De'anna knows that the 5th has a plan, and she can't destroy that plan.
And how would D'Anna know that the 5th has a plan, and what that plan is? She only saw the 5 in a vision and then was boxed, no time to learn more in the meantime.
There is some more news, not really spoilerish (very mild at the end of the article, perhaps), but interesting for the structure of S4.5:
From a new interview of Maureen Ryan with RDM: http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/en...ng-battles.html
The most interesting things:
-The proposed “Battlestar Galactica” TV movie would take place during the time frame of previous seasons, but it would air after the series finale.
-The final episodes of “Battlestar” will begin airing in January.
-The final set of episodes will be at least 11 hours long, and the series finale will occupy three of those hours. However, there’s a chance that the series finale could expand even more.
-The “Battlestar” series finale will definitely expand on DVD. Regardless of the length of the finale that airs on Sci Fi next year, an even longer cut will be released on DVD.
-If “Caprica” gets a full series order, it will air in 2009. If “Caprica” does not get a series order and airs as a standalone 2-hour movie, it could air this fall.
-Regarding when the network would decide whether to pick “Caprica” as a full series, the decision would come in September. Executives will get a cut of “Caprica” in early August, then decide in September whether it will become a series.
-If “Caprica” does get a series order, it will not be something that is designed to end after 13 episodes. It’ll be a regular series that could potentially go on for years, not a limited-run series.
Hey I just had a fun thought.
Bills mother was named Evelynn. Evelynn Adama.
You know, as in Eve. The first woman. Made from Adam. Biblical Cylon much?
She gave that lighter to Joseph. And the lighter has a Plan...
Hmmm, now that I've seen the Caprica trailer...perhaps the way to reconcile Leoben's comments and D'anna's comments is something like this.
The 4 have been to Earth. Presumably they are from Earth.
The Seven are the generation of Cylons that are the result of the First War.
The Final Cylon is the First Cylon.
So, there aren't 2 types or generations of Cylons. There are 3:
1 from Earth.
1 from the Colonies, all machine.
1 from the Colonies, machine modeled on human, a human personality d/loaded / copied as a replica of an actual human. It's actually a hybrid of human and machine.
The First Cylon from the Colonies is Joe Adama's daughter, and Bill's sister. It would make sense of Leoben's comment. It would mean the face D'anna saw was her face, and face not among the fleet. It's also the Fifth Cylon of the "Final Five" group because of its characterisitics, but not because of its origin.
However, it could still be in the fleet, for it has simply transferred its own consciousness into a different body, a body similar to the original, yet different enough that it's well hidden from Cylon and human alike. This could fit something Virtual Six said to Baltar in the mini: "Really, we should make a copy of your brain pattern..." The Graystone prototype seems to be the result of that. So, if it just periodically downloaded that same pattern into a different body, not a copy of the original one, in order to hide itself, it could still survive, looking physically different, while in a virtual environment, it might look just like the original, eg. Joe's daughter.
If so, then I'm still of the opinion that's its Dualla, because of what she said about leaving her father and losing faith in God back in her interview with D'anna in Season 2. She told the truth. That could well be what happens to the replica of Adama's daughter in Caprica. It adopts monotheism, comes to believe in God, an ancient belief secretly passed down since the time of Kobol, and eventually it leaves Adama after some sort of conflict, and later it loses its faith in God. Later, the Cylons devolve into mechanical models, which in turn evolve back into humans later on. Its struggle for redemption may be because its somehow at the center of all of this. The end of humanity on the colonies began with it. Heck, if the destruction of Earth's society is relatively recent, we now know it doesn't take that long to reach Earth from the Colonies, so its possible after whatever happens in Caprica it went to Earth and somehow the dark cloud that seems to follow it, so to speak, went with it, eventually resulting in the war on Earth. It may have escaped and taken the Four with it as survivors. Heck it may mean the Four thought they were human because they were downloaded into replicas of themselves and never suspected it, unlike the Seven who knew they were Cylon because they were made by Cylons.
However, she clearly is strongly fond of Bill, not just Lee, which is something you might expect if she had the "soul" of his sister.
Objection 1: Cavil said he was "Number 1." Yes, but there's a discrepancy in the numbers. It skips over 7 and goes to 8. Perhaps Cavil is covering up the truth, the numbers are really 2 to 8 and 9 to 12, with 1 being the prototype. The reason Cavil seems to have assigned it, implicitly, the number 7 is that Graystone was right, it's a "perfect" Cylon. In Gematria, seven is the number of perfection.
Objection 2: Eww, then Lee married his aunt. Yes and no. Can a copy be considered an "aunt?" Maybe marrying Lee was her way of becoming an Adama again.
Objection 3: What about the Virtuals? Well, they could be the same being. If so, perhaps what we've been seeing as the virtuals is from Earth. It's a "13th" Cylon, the fifth one of the group from Earth. The Final Cylon could still know all it knows on this theory if it's been in contact with the Four, been to Earth itself, or in contact with the Virtual/s at any point. In short, it stands between the Four and the Seven. It stands with the Five, because these 5 are all "perfect" Cylons, apart from the others. Yet, because it's not from Earth, it doesn't hear the music the others hear.
This theory could also accommodate the idea that Boomer or Athena is the one of the "Final Five," for, if we redo the numbers, making the replica Graystone creates Number 1 and Cavil to Caprica Six, 2 - 7, then the Eights would be part of the Final Five, the only ones with multiple copies for some reason, while the other 4 have none.
Quite major spoiler for S4.5 (and one I like very much):
(from this interview http://www.fhmonline.com/girls_girls_of_fh...amp;idx_id=6350 )
Grace Park: "You’re going to get to see a wrapping up of all the events that have occurred and you’ll find out who survives, who dies, and who the final Cylon is. There’s another interaction between my two characters, Boomer and Athena, and there’s a lot of history we finally clear up with them"
Yeah, poor Boomer has sure gotten the short end over the years. Betrayed by her programming, abandoned and murdered by the Colonials, almost boxed by D'Anna, villified on NC by the woman who took her lover, killed by her only equal (Caprica) on the Basestar, isolated from her sisters in the Cylon civil war, not to mention being replaced by Athena on Galactica.
That is a lot of baggage.
Granted she's made some bad choices too, but I'd like to see Boomer get some solace, somewhere. Even if it's from Athena herself.
Now thats going to be somthing to watch.
What is also very interesting is how Athena and Boomer will meet (and apparently in such a way that they can and will talk). This fact alone is heartwarming for fans of Boomer, as it wasn't at all clear she would have the opportunity to talk with colonials or rebel Cylons again, given what side she ended up with and there being war and all. I wonder just in what circumstances this meeting will take place. Will they meet up by coincidence (does Boomer, and perhaps the other loyal Cylons, discover Earth or so?), or does one seek out the other on purpose?
Boomer probably has deep issues with Athena (using her memories and all, having her basically thrown off Galactica), and OTOH Athena will remember those threats to Hera very well. I don't think the meeting will start very friendly, and how it will end is anyone's guess. Better than last time they met, I hope!
There are again spoilers filtering through, mostly from comic-con reports:
-From this ( http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showtopic=2309568 ) scifi thread: Zarek reportedly will die in S4.5 "taking lots of them with him", or sort-of...
He is apparently "a guy with the right motivation who has no choice in the end". This is especially intriguing in combination with the next tidbit:
-On this page ( http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showtopic=2311800&st=80 ) people are discussing some things said or shown during the con, and apparently it seems like Zarek may be leading a revolt against Adama and the rebel Cylons (this may be erroneous interpretation for all I know though, caution). A kind of teaser was shown with some new material in it, and among other things, Geata was seen confronting Zarek (apparently "president Zarek"), Bill Adama was "about to be executed" and a bunch of (apparently rebel) Cylons were in the brig also expecting to be executed.
-also in this clip, "there seems to be some sort of large ground battle at some point. Tricia was saying how she got to use some new type of machinegun and James Callis was saying that one one night of shooting it reminded him of Apocolyse Now " (reported by someone in the same thread, one page further)
this is very interesting, a major space battle was always expected but may it be we only get a major ground battle instead? Or both, at different times or at the same time?
-In an e!online interview with Jamie Bamber, he mentioned that his last scene filmed (with the second unit) involved filming with "a bunch of extras", while shooting people. I guess this ties in with said major ground battle. In any case, interesting that the (vice-)president needs to take a gun himself at some stage
-from the same poster (maxtek 16): "Also, someone poised the question of what happens now that they found earth and from what was said I could gather that they might stay on Earth for a few episodes at least and that the first few episodes are very depressing."
-from io9: http://io9.com/5029618/exclusive-ja...ship-secrets-and-david-eick-discusses-caprica
"They [Caprica and BSG] were on two separate tracks," and BSG's ending has been planned out "in broad strokes" for a long time."
"Eick confirmed that nobody from Caprica would be turning up on BSG."
"[The ipcoming BSG movie] delves into "territory that the fans would be familiar with, and offers new perspective."
It's highly unlikely that Jamie Bamber will be involved in the movie.
-More from io9 ( http://io9.com/5029608/battlestar-galactica-ends-with-bullets-secrets ):
Eick on the decision to make Anders a Cylon: "It was like Gaeta? Anders? Gaeta? Anders? for awhile."
Tricia Helfer: "I got to shoot some guns. Finally. James and I, we started the first scene of the miniseries having sex and we finished the main shooting [of the series] with shooting."
Ron Moore: "I can tell you it's [the final Cylon] someone you've seen. It won't be a guest-star"
-Paul Campbell has confirmed we will not see Billy Keikeya again on BSG
-Starbuck "finds peace" at the end
Edit: There is more info here: http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/07/27/comic-con-teasing-the-final-epic-war-in-battlestar-galactica/
-Starbuck and Apollo making out.
-Adama and Roslin making out as well
-The Final Four next to ruins.
-Apollo in a cell crying: “just kill me”
-President Roslyn asking Commander Adama if he was a Cylon, and the next clip showing the Commander in the airlock of BSG with a white cloth over his eyes, looking into the camera
-The trailer ended with showing various cast members holding guns as well as shooting them. Some battles on Earth, others on Galatica.
Separate names with a comma.