Discussion in 'Battlestar Galactica & Caprica' started by Caprica_Six, Sep 1, 2005.
Because some people think the most complicated and bizarre solution is usually the correct one.
Never count out complicated and even bizarre solutions on BSG, certainly when said solutions offer dramatic payoff - Ron Moore is running the show, and didn't Grace Parks say that she had to read one of the final script three times and have RDM explain it some more to "get" it? Sounds pretty complicated to me, whatever it was being explained.
Anyway, on this board people usually are willing to consider the head Cylons, the entire human race, Kara's Viper, Galactica itself and even body-jumping ghost Cylons as the fifth Cylon.
For some reason, all those seem more plausible to many here than some trickery with model numbers and people not being what they seem at first, allthough this has been happening frequently in BSG. At least Boomer could easily have been one of the human shapes seen and recognized by D'Anna in her vision, and D'Anna would have had very good reason to be surprised.
Some possible spoilers for S4.5, but beware as reliability is uncertain:
On this scifi thread ( http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showtopic=2310800 ), mostly on the first couple of pages, there are some very interesting hints and tidbits about season 4.5. Or at least, from someone who claims to have spoken with a friend involved in the BSG production. I'm not certain if this person can be trusted - apparently he opened spoiler threads about "Revelations" before it was broadcasted, which got deleted by the scifi admins. So he claims at least, and I haven't seen anyone calling him upon that in the thread so I suppose he really did that (I not on scifi often enough to know this for sure myself).
Anyway, if it can be trusted (besides the person who posted the news being trustworthy, his source also has to be considered as RDM claimed they may put out foilers) than there are some interesting things:
"They will get to Earth, but this planet (New Terra if you like, although I wasn't actually given a name for the planet) is another stepping stone, like Kobol and the Algae planet. If I'm remembering correctly, they find the Temple ruins, uncover that the 13th tribe or what have you stopped off there, were wiped out, some fled and eventually got to Earth." (this was posted on page 7 of the thread, standard settings)
So, it would appear that the planet found in "Revelations" may not be Earth, or not our Earth at least (there is a whole shitload of discussion on scifi about this, some suggesting that the 13th tribe did call it Earth but after it was nuked they may have settled on nearby "New Earth", which could be our Earth...
He also writes: "Not Earth, it's [COLOR=#ffffff]another sign post, like Algae planet and Kobol"[/COLOR]
He gives some rather vague hints about some other things:
-"We have no choice, General Calrissian, our cruisers can't repel firepower of that magnitude!" A quote from Return of the Jedi, when the rebel fleet closes in on the superior Imperial fleet as alternative to just getting blasted from standoff distance by the death star. Probably a reference to the big battle at the final episode
-"FrankenStarbuck?" Points to Starbuck being a clone of some kind. He later also writes "she's very central to what's coming in the story and There's More Than Meets The Eye with her.. Even saying this little I've probably said to much." (more than meets the eye is a transformers reference) He also writes: "Earlier "rumors" are true = [COLOR=#ffffff]she finds her Viper and body, her and Leoban commit a cover-up and torch the works. [/COLOR]."
Don't like it, her Viper being on what-they-call-Earth is as miraculous as the intact one that she showed up in.
-"Baltar is the man..." No idea here, but he also writes: "Baltar plays a very important role, but just remember [COLOR=#ffffff]noone is safe in the BSG universe[/COLOR]."
-"Nicky and Hera" Likewise, no idea
-"Cavemen" Ties in with one the calls for extras in the finale, probably. May be what they will find on "new Earth" or perhaps survivors on "old Earth" (if that theory is correct)?
-"The Old Man Kicks ***." Not anything new
-"Romo!?" I don't have a clue, again. We know he will be back for one more episode.
-"Cavil Not Scared!" Does anybody get this reference (which I suppose is from some known movie or TV series)? Anyway, it indicates Cavil will play a quite major role, as is to be expected
- "My God.. what have I done?" "What you had to do, what you always do. Turn death into a fighting chance to live."
This is a reference to STIII, when Kirk and co are watching the original Enterprise burn up in the atmosphere after they set the selfdestruct. I guess it's not looking good for Galactica !?
Also about the final battle: "Epic Battle, very much so, biggest of the series and quite possibly biggest ever in a Sci Fi show, I was told, "Think the final battle between the Alliance and the Empire in ROTJ." "Epic space battle, huge, think Return of the Jedi.. Star Destroyers, Republic cruisers, thousands of Tie Fighters, hundreds of X Wings.. just massive and intense."
Just who is going to participate in that battle on the RTF's side? A possible "new Earth" fleet, a bunch of rebel baseships that were overlooked so far or a part of Cavil's faction breaks off from the rest? I guess Galactica and one half-destroyed baseship alone won't cut it in a battle of ROTJ proportions.
About Lee and Kara: "there is more Lee and Kara shipping, but Kara's destiny isn't to be a shipper.. there are bigger lights in the heavens for her future. Her story was a big surprise to me, definitely didn't see it coming."
About Kara and "Slick", the pianoplayer: "The Piano Man, indeed very important to Starbuck.. Theories I've seen posted are pretty spot on relating to their relationship.. we met her mother and saw that side of the story"
About Dee: "Dee.. I really want to spill the beans here, but I'm going to refrain because you will not want to ruin the surprises in store here. She's been MIA for most of 4.0, but not so for 4.5. We get her history some, but there's some Darth Vader in there."
Some general comments from him - keep in mind he hasn't actually seen anything though, only been told about it: "RDM has performed incredibly. Everything that we've griped about, loose ends of significance are tied up. Head people, FrankenStarbuck, The Fifth, The Final Five, Earth, there's more I'm trying to remember, but those are the big points I was told were tied up and in some of the cases how."
He also notes a few things he was not told about, including who the final Cylon is:
"I can say a few things I don't know..
1- The Fifth/Final Cylon.
2- minor to medium level details, like do Kara and Sam knock boots again..?
3- Doc Cottle, I forgot to ask, and I'd really like to know what's up with him
4- Tom Zarek, I know his fate, but no details"
I wonder if this is true. Hopefully we will get some secondary sources soon to either confirm or reject some of it, so we can get an idea how trustworthy it is.
If those spoilers are from a poster named CongoRed, they're probably true. Congo's threads kept getting deleted over there because they revealed too much, but I noticed he/she was ALWAYS right. Sort of a Morpheus type for the skiffy boards.
FrankenStarbuck? You know, if this person isn't really Starbuck that's pretty creepy that she's being treated as such by the narrative. I hope that's not the case--a clone is NOT the same person. I hated that potential idea in Enterprise episode, "Similitude," and I hate it now. It just devalues a person. You can't exchange one for the other even if it's Kara, who's not my favorite character. If she is a clone, let it be acknowledged by the narrative that she isn't the same person. I hope she's not a clone.
Dee...Darth Vader? Much as I like Dee, that idea intrigues me. What could fine, upstanding Dee do that she'd be likened to Darth Vader?
More Lee and Kara shipping? I will *not* curse.....I will not bitch and moan...... Hopefully the bit about her destiny not being shipping is accurate. Just leave the romantic nonsense between these two alone, RDM. Please.
Cavil playing a big part works for me. So does the old man kicking ass.
Baltar is the man. Did his little speech to the centurian about the dog treats spark an insurrection of metallic cylon against organic cylon? That would be his style.
"My God...what have I done?"
"What you had to do...."
Sounds like another great father/son moment to me.
Yes, those are from CongoRed. So he is reliable - well, that means it is not Earth after all, not OUR Earth at least.
I also wonder about the Dee comments. It is confirmed by a tidbit given by one of the writers though, who said we would see a dark(er) side of Dee in S4. Still, Darth Vader??
If it's not the real Earth I'm going to be pissed. Honestly, that would be the first time I'm really dissapointed in BSG.
I have to admit, if it's not really Earth I'm going to be disappointed as well. They'll have to do some real tap dancing to justify that creative choice. Hopefully they can pull it off.
Yeah, CongoRed usually had it nailed. Maybe Dee sells out the colonials (thinking she's doing the right thing) because she's afraid that Apollo has made a deadly mistake by granting the rebel cylons amnesty? She might still love the guy. I don't know. There's lots of ways they could go with that.
I was also disappointed at first by the Earth news, it also made me doubt the reliability of CongoRed as it seemed unlikely.
However, the theory about "old-Earth", "new-Earth" like "Caprica" and "New caprica", that has been suggested by some on scifi, may have merit. In this case, the roadsigns really all were leading to Earth - only, it wasn't "our" Earth. That will be the planet the survivors fled to, and in time the "new" will fall off the name, I guess. And the with the help of the final Cylon, the colonials will find it, and Roslin will die before she ever makes it there. It is consistent with foreshadowing, that way, and some of the comments from writers like "what they call Earth, anyway" also point in that direction.
I think it could work.
If that's not our earth, its lame. Period.
Dorian, are you entirely sure that CongoRed indeed has given real info in the past that wasn't related to the "Revelations" pre-screening? Were his deleted threads all about the same subject ("Revelations"), and possibly after the screening so everything was basically spoiled already, or is there much more to it?
I ask because on another forum, I got the following reaction about him:
"In this case, you'll see that this particular poster recently claimed to have exclusive inside information about Revelations. It was posted after the Revelations screening. It was limited to the same three points leaked at battlestarblog after the screening. He got called on it."
This would put quite a different spin on his trustworthiness, depending on what you answer.
I read some other stuff from Congo that proved to be correct. It wasn't really major, but he called it on Elosha visiting Roslin in a vision long before it happened and other spoilers broke, and some other things. As to whether he's full of shit now....could be. However, I suspect this really isn't the final "Earth" just like he says. Little things the writers are now quoted as saying point to that being true. His info was never as extensive as Morpheus' info was, but what he's predicted has usually been on the mark--at least what I saw of it. I don't hang around skiffy boards every day.
Take him with a grain of salt, but I suspect he's right.
Okay, thanks for the info. We'll just have to wait and see.
I'm okay with FrankenStarbuck in theory, though the problem of explaining how a crashed but recognizably intact Viper ended up on "Earth" is a big issue, since the VFX in Malestrom showed her Viper exploding into fragments.
The thing is, this could be used to tie-in with an explanation of the Final Five - Starbuck might not be merely a clone, but could in fact be the true Starbuck's mind and personality transferred into a new body with whatever step-up in technology over the regular Cylons that the Final Five seem to represent.
As for Not Earth, well... it's all in the presentation. The possibility for total failure in storytelling looms large, but with the correct nuances it could work. I'm not adverse myself to the idea that the ruined Earth is the "real" Earth and the one that we're living on (in the real world) is part of the "this has happened before..." cycle, where the 13th tribe fled after a war to find a new home.
The Final Five Cylons are different, how is Boomer different? She's not, she is a regular Cylon with 10,000,000 copies.
Gods, how I miss Morpheus!
Who was that, the best source for major spoilers I suppose? What happened to him?
He - or more likely, she - worked on "Enterprise" and posted a good deal of interesting information both about future events on the show and some of the backstage goings-on.
I'm OK with the notion that the Earth we saw on BSG is the one we live on, just in the future... and not, as it turns out, where they really need to be going. Really, what are they going to do? Settle down on that radioactive dump? Not likely. They'll get what clues they need and move on.
The FrankenStarbuck thing sounds creepy and interesting. I actually think I've heard that very idea elsewhere--that Starbuck would find her own body, and destroy it to prevent anyone from finding out the truth.
You'd be surprised.
I'm a bit disappointed by it not really being Earth. Two Earths? Please.
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