Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by admiral_reliant, Apr 24, 2013.
Most likely an unarmed civilian ship.
Corellian light freighter?
Trekkies will bitch about anything that doesn't suit their preconceived notions. Once their sensibilities are offended, they figure out reasons that the offending factoid "doesn't make sense" or is somehow illogical or implausible while swallowing whole any ridiculous idea that does suit their expectations.
Yes, "Vengeance" has not been an uncommon name for naval vessels over the last several centuries. Seems to have a more distinguished lineage than a silly name like "Excelsior," at that.
Starships in Abrams's movies are "a ridiculous size?" Only if you assume that oldTrek is some kind of expert tutorial on how real starships would be constructed; otherwise, no one has any idea what's a plausible size for an FTL vessel constructed three or four centuries from now.
What does Starfleet want "vengeance" for? I just can't imagine - oh, maybe they let the Vulcans name it.
Vengeance is actually a rather storied US navy vessel name
And since this sucker is bigger than an Imperial star Destroyer I think it has a good ring too it
Would you rather they called it the USS Flowerpower??
It's definately a human design, as the controls and displays are same style as we see on the Kelvin / Kobayashi Maru test bridge and older shuttles (like Pike flew to Narada). OR it may be laziness of the design department.
Why don't we just call it USS Evil Overlord instead?
The Vengeance of Khan.
The Vengeance doesn't work for me because it incorporates elements of aviation and maritime technology, while ignoring what has been established in previous Star Trek. Planes are painted black to reduce temperatures, i.e. the Blackbird. Starships have in-built coolant systems that handle that task. The shape of the airframe on the Nighthawk is for evading radar. Starships don't need angles; they have sensors that can be programmed to hide their signature. And the difference between a battleship and a heavy cruiser is that the former was a heavily armed and armored vessel with an unremarkable speed and maneuverability and the latter, though lightly armed and armored when compared to the battleship, had greater speed and maneuverability.
I don't see how useful the Vengeance would be in battle. I remember a battle between the MU Defiant and Worf's flagship in which the latter was bested. Now I am imagining a fleet of those bird-of-preys seen in the trailer coming against this ship. Guess who will win? The Klingons, who use bird-of-preys extensively in combat and who perform the task of protecting the larger ships. So why did Starfleet invest money and resources into building this ship, when they could have invested money and resources into a number of smaller ships that could take on the Klingon battle strategy?
It seems the only people who think that battleships are cool is people who don't have the slightest knowledge of naval history.
Throwback, as much as I agree with your post above - I also understand that it's all just part of an artistic license, also - the writers of this and the previous one always said they wanted their vision to be more grounded in reality, to be more accessible for broader audiences. Black-angular-mean looking? A stealth vehicle, everyone, without sophisticated military knowledge will know this at first glimpse. Any other sci-fi movies and shows used the same tendency, let me grab the closest example I can think of - BSG. Normal Vipers were white, with red stripes, lots of lettering and emblems, pretty much Starfleet style. Stealth fighter, the Blackbird looked like this.
Ah well, I just assumed the shape of the ship is intended to look "harsh" as more unsubtle reminder that it's the villain's ship. I have reviewed the spoilers (or rather skimmed, I don't have the attention span to read all that) but saw no indication in the movie that this is meant to be a stealth ship.
And again, the size really works against the idea that it is meant to be stealth. After all, this ship must need a crew of over 1000, and a stealth mission you want a bare minimum of people involved. Even if the majority of the crew were kept ignorant of the fact this is stealth, that just increases the chances of someone screwing up bad enough to risk exposing the ship.
Really, this ship should just be flying a flag saying "Villains aboard."
First of all, in this context "stealth" refers to technologies employed to evade detection by enemy sensors. It has nothing to do with crew size or a specific mission.
Second, Vengeance has a very small crew - much smaller than that of Enterprise. Enterprise, BTW, has more than a thousand crew.
On the scale of the Universe and of FTL travel, of course, there's no substantial difference in size between Enterprise, Vengeance or the Galileo 7 - they're all tiny.
Maybe I'm missing something, but there's still one key detail we still don't know: Vengeance's registry number. This is important.
There is no registry number. Section 31 has improved efficiency by putting the zero directly in front of the name. USS 0Vengeance.
And by using tiny black stealth f0nt.
Tell that to the TNG era Romulans who are going around being stealthy in a freaking Warbird thats bigger than the Enterprise-D.
And bigger than the nuEnterprise. But that's ok, I guess.
It's not the size that matters, but the motion of the Cumberbatch. Whatever the hell that means.
I think I just Guy Gardenered myself.
that is one mother of a ship i'll say. and i thought Enterprise was big. i always thought it was the prelude to the excelsior class.
Intriguing. There are a lot of assumptions and complaints being (sometimes angrily) thrown about regarding this ship:
That it's stealthy: Is it really based on some kind of new stealth technology? What evidence is there for this assertion?
That it's "painted" a dark color: Some have said that it would be a waste of time and materials to paint something that large, and that such a paint job would be in violation of some established Starfleet color palette. If the first assertion of "stealth" is correct, then is it not possible that the standard duranium hull is coated with some kind of engineered polymer that would provide it with stealth capabilities? Even more possible, the hull plating might be made from a different kind of experimental material entirely, other than duranium, that happens to be a naturally darker color - no painting necessary. And is this the only reason why people think it's "stealthy" (see assumption #1)? Are ships in this timeline even still using duranium?
It's from Section 31: Says who? While I wouldn't mind a Section 31 involvement, as its foundation canonically happened before the timeline split, I have heard of no official statement that Section 31 is, in fact, involved.
That it's Starfleet: People are complaining about the name Vengeance not "being very Starfleet", nor is its overall aggressive design. We don't even know if Starfleet (or Section 31) was even involved in the construction of this vessel. Some have suggested that there was some possible Klingon involvement in its design and construction. I believe this to be highly likely due to the obvious known involvement of Klingons in the movie. Others have speculated that this might be something taken from the Mirror Universe. While I'm thinking the latter supposition is less likely, it still wouldn't be terribly problematic if its existence is properly explained.
It doesn't have a registry number on the hull: Some submarines in the American navy (and I'm sure others) don't always have registry numbers painted on their sails, intentionally, to prevent them from being identified by prying eyes during a sensitive assignment. Could not Starfleet embrace a similar policy towards their own vessels? It would tie in to the "Section 31" involvement of a covert and "stealthy" nature.
In short, let's just wait and see what happens, shall we?
I don't think it's supposed to be a sneaky steath ship rather it's a huge freaking battleship designed to bring a lot of firepower to bear.
It may be the civilian ship acquired in the Countdown to Darkness comic book.
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