Spock Prime: "You are not the captain?" line

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Cadet49, Mar 20, 2013.

  1. Cadet49

    Cadet49 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    In Star Trek 09, Spock Prime is startled that Kirk is not the captain of the Enterprise yet. Spock Prime expects Kirk to already be the captain, though it is obvious from his appearance that he is much younger than he was in TOS, so even if Spock isn't quite sure of the date, he would at least recognize Kirk's youth, we can assume... and the film is canon, unlike those earlier works (novels, comics, etc.). Could this means Kirk assumed command of the Enterprise in the prime universe much younger that originally portrayed in other fiction sources, and several years prior to the 5 year mission? Perhaps he assumed command shortly after the Farragut incident of 2257, for some reason?

    The film also establishes that in the Prime Universe, Kirk's dad lived to watch him become Captain of the Enterprise, which also contradicts the earlier novels.
     
  2. Franklin

    Franklin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Bear in mind Spock Prime is very shocked, bewildered, and probably depressed at this time. (This is the only way I can ever rationalize why he stayed in the cave when he knew of the Starfleet outpost. Did he intend to die there?) Since he had known Kirk's only service on the Enterprise was its captain, it would logical to think he's captain in this universe, regardless of his age. After all, Spock Prime doesn't know yet how different this timeline really is, and how much it changed Kirk.

    Kirk's appearance and information about what was going on seemed to perk Spock Prime up and allowed him to gather his wits about him and motivate him to try to set things as right as he could make them. That is, get Kirk back on the Enterprise and trust his friend would know what to do.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  3. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    I say he simply didn't know the exact year until he began the mind meld with Kirk. People don't look that different between ages 25 and 34. Certainly Chris Pine won't look like 1960's William Shatner any time soon.

    As for when Kirk Prime became a captain, the old DC Comics Trek suggested that he commanded the USS Saladin for years prior to becoming captain of the Enterprise.
     
  4. Kirby

    Kirby Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This. They guy had just watched his planet implode, and then a much younger version of Kirk comes in, a guy who he hasn't seen in decades. Plus he''s wearing a pile of cold weather clothing, so it would probably be very difficult to determine how old Kirk was at that moment.
     
  5. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Remember, Spock Prime makes this comment after Kirk says he was booted off the Enterprise for mutiny. I assumed Spock is simply expressing surprise that he is in command of the Enterprise and that Kirk is serving under him.
     
  6. FlapJoy

    FlapJoy Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Did Kirk ever serve aboard the Enterprise as anything other than Captain in the original continuity? Because, in Spock's perspective, Kirk was always the Captain of the Enterprise, never serving a lesser post as far as he knew. So if Kirk is serving on 1701 then it must be as her Captain in Spock's mind, but if he's been ejected from the ship by it's Captain, then what is Kirk's position?
    So Spock is confused but is making the realization that time has indeed been altered.
     
  7. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    yep, that's my interpretation as well.
     
  8. golddragon71

    golddragon71 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Spock Prime served as Science Officer* on the Enterprise for eleven years under Christopher Pike before Jim Kirk was granted command of the ship following the disaster at Ghioghe.

    The thing that gets me isn't so much Spock's surprise to learn Kirk's not the Captain (or that Pike is alive and moderately well!)
    but rather, that Young Jim Kirk would
    A. Know of his existence in the first place...
    B. Know to look for him.

    *Spock was not First Officer under Pike, that job Fell to the mysterious Female Helm officer known as Number One
     
  9. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    Spock seems surprised to see Kirk. ( well as surprised as Spock gets.) He's just as confused as you are about how Kirk could know of his existence and be looking for him. He probably not sure of the exact date either.

     
  10. Joby

    Joby Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think Spock was more confused then anything else. I think some people can look pretty different from mid 20s to early or mid 30s though. Not everyone, but I've known people that still look kids when they were around 25, only to look terrible by the time they hit 30. Terrible for age 30 that is and looking more 45 or something. i.e., wrinkled up, balding, fat,....
     
  11. Marten

    Marten Captain Captain

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    I figured that Spock simply knew the Enterprise would work best with Kirk in command and Spock as first officer, and tried to make that happen.
     
  12. Gojira

    Gojira Commodore Commodore

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    It is possible Spock recognized Kirk as being younger than when he was Captain, but I think he was just simply more confused about learning that he was aboard the Enterprise and not the Captain.

    I thought Spock would be more confused about learning that Kirk and Pike were on the Enterprise at the same time.
     
  13. wissaboo

    wissaboo Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't know about you, but the older I get the harder it is to tell how old anyone younger than me is. I'm assuming that will continue to get worse. And Spock is older than I'll ever get so I'm guessing that is the problem.
     
  14. Gojira

    Gojira Commodore Commodore

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    I will be 50 in a few months and all people in their 20s look the same age.
     
  15. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    All people in their twenties look the same to everyone, even to other people who are in their twenties.
     
  16. shivkala

    shivkala Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Being Vulcan, it is hard to tell, exactly what his tone implies, but it could have been subtly influencing Jim to realize he could be Captain and would need to take over in order to beat Nero.
     
  17. Franklin

    Franklin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Spock Prime is doing what feels right. He's assuming that young Kirk is every bit as capable as the Kirk he knew. He's also supposing that Spock is as emotionally compromised as he is, and therefore not fit to command and pursue Nero in the most effective way. Frankly, beyond that, he can't know much.

    And given his feelings for Pike, I doubt he believed he was sending Kirk back there to permanently take the Enterprise from Pike when all was said and done. I think he would've been just as easily satisfied if it had ended with Pike still in the captain's chair with Kirk as the first officer and Spock as science officer.