Spock and Pike

Discussion in 'Star Trek - Original Series' started by Melakon, Jan 22, 2013.

  1. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Why didn't Spock mind-meld with injured Captain Pike in "The Menagerie"?

    Mendez shows frustration that Pike can't reach out, no one can reach in, and that his mind is working normally.

    In terms of production numbers, "Dagger of the Mind" was apparently filmed about 4 or 5 episodes before the "Menagerie" framing story, and originally aired 2 weeks earlier.

    So it had been previously established that Spock had this ability.

    Was it unmentioned only because they were uncertain of actual airdates in those days?
     
  2. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    What would he mind-meld about?
     
  3. stationzebra

    stationzebra Ensign Red Shirt

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    mind meld for what reason?
     
  4. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Well, I was originally thinking they could figure out what Pike was agitated about, which frustrated Mendez. But since Spock himself was the cause of Pike's agitation, Spock could have simply lied about the results of the mindmeld, or even faked the whole thing.

    Though it could have had other uses, since Pike couldn't even communicate whether he wanted someone to leave him the hell alone for five minutes.

    It's rough not having the episodes in my library anymore, so I could think these things out before making a stupid post.
     
  5. plynch

    plynch Commodore Commodore

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    That was three "boops."
     
  6. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    Pike in a wheelchair seems harsher in hindsight. What surprised me is that the actor who played him had a speaking role as an Ensign in "Arena" later in the season, and without the aging make-up (and with dialogue) I reckon he was a reasonably close match for Jeff Hunter, so I don't see why the producers felt the need to cover him up at all. Mind you, I suppose they might have felt that the stock footage from The Cage would have made it much too obvious that it very evidently isn't the same guy, even though his voice is kind of similar (to my ears anyway).
     
  7. SchwEnt

    SchwEnt Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    This post leads to me question why Pike didn't have a telepathic assistant/caregiver.

    Telepathic species, Vulcans included, were known in TOS.
    Wasn't there some kindly telepathic race that could have served as aide to Pike, contacting his mind and expressing his thoughts, helping Pike to connect to the outside world?

    If medical technology wasn't able to overcome the obstacles, an empathic or telepathic species would be helpful to someone in Pike's predicament.
     
  8. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe there are retconned Betazoids hanging around the starbase.
     
  9. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    Not stupid, I've been wondering the same thing myself for years. :techman:
     
  10. Redfern

    Redfern Commodore Commodore

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    Pike's injuries and the nature of his chair crop up every so often and some interesting ideas get tossed around the threads. Someone suggested this chair was something of a "stop gap" to stabilize his condition before more sophisticated devices could be employed, like a more refined communications interface. Unfortunately, the way McCoy talks, there's no way to tie more directly into Pike's brain to allow that. And, if they could, it would "weaken" Spock's desperation to get Pike to Talos IV where he can live out his years "unfettered" by his injuries.

    In short, if Pike could have talked, the "mystery" as to why Spock would seemingly go AWOL is negated. In short, it's the "McGuffin", a motivating factor for the narrative. Or, if one is cynical, it's a plot contrivance. Maybe the nature of the Delta ray damage made normal interfacing considerably more problematic.

    Pulling Next Gen' into the equation, how long has the Federation had relations with Betazed? If, barely a century, there might not be too many of them around, yet (at the time of TOS). Vulcans? Well, later Spock was mind-melding with everything this side of the galactic core, but at the time of "Dagger of the Mind", Spock spoke of it in hushed tones, it being a rather private thing, almost as secretive as Pon Farr. So maybe Vulcans in general were not that willing to offer their services.

    Sincerely,

    Bill
     
  11. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    And Spock usually didn't do a mindmeld without explicit consent. Pike could have just boop-boop-a-dooped him.

    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfXq6ITf8BI[/yt]
     
  12. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    Out of universe, of course it's a plot contrivance. I think Melakon was likely trying to fit in the events of the episode with what else we've seen done.

    As far as Next Gen goes, I thought Betazed was one of the Federations founding members? Though I could be mis-remembering that part. EDIT: Definitely wrong on this point. Memory Alpha gives a 2273 join date.
     
  13. Mister Atoz

    Mister Atoz Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Melakon, you have brought up an excellent point and your analysis is valid.

    Mr Atoz
     
  14. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    BillJ figured out what I was aiming for. I was trying to put it down fast while I had the thought, but my keyboard is a piece of crap with sticking keys and requires both hands to press the spacebar, and I can't type as fast as I used to (70wpm on a manual typewriter).
     
  15. Redfern

    Redfern Commodore Commodore

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    I tend to "weave" between "narrative universe" and "real life" production even if the thrust of the discussion is meant to be just one of those facers.

    As for typing speed, don't apologize. Took typing classes nearly 30 years ago, but to this day, I'm still something of a "hunt and pecker". (Wait; that doesn't sound right!) An early childhood stroke left me with slightly diminished motor skills in my left arm. Thankfully I wasn't left slogging about like Igor for some mad scientist.

    Sincerely,

    Bill
     
  16. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    ...And were in the bogeymen category for the most part. Spock kept his abilities secret until "Dagger of the Mind", and the fact that they came as a surprise to the medically educated McCoy suggests there isn't anything about that ability in professional or general literature, either. And Miranda Jones was evicted to Vulcan for displaying signs of telepathy...

    Telepaths in "The Cage" and "The Menagerie" were black hats through and through. This both gives a dramatic reason not to have a white hat telepath in the episodes, and tells a lot about the general attitudes and prejudices of 23rd century humans or Starfleeters about telepathy.

    If Pike could process language in his brain in the first place, Federation science would probably have found a way to tie the processes to an output device of some sort. But if Pike suffers from brain damage specific to language processing, and can perfectly understand spoken words but cannot put together an English sentence to save (or end) his life, then not only are machine "voders" out, but telepathy might become less informative as well.

    The point about Spock having no motivation to act as an interpreter for Pike here stands, though.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  17. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Commodore Commodore

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    I wonder if Roger Korby's android technology would be able to not only give Pike a new body, but completely allow full control (speech, etc.). The "am i real or not?" questions would pop up, but if a Korby body has the full range of senses, where the human brain would not know the difference, Pike would have enjoyed a second life to do whatever he desired.
     
  18. plynch

    plynch Commodore Commodore

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    Corby got a bum rap.
     
  19. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You know, I'm a rather brilliant surgeon. Perhaps I can help you with that hump.
     
  20. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    I was fortunate to learn on Dad's manual Olivetti portable, though I started with 3-finger hunt and peck. I took touch-typing in high school. I had the highest speed of two classes at 70 on manual Olympias (or was it Olympus?) with no mistakes, but that was too much effort to be comfortable. I scaled back to an easier 55, and only one other person matched me. I think I ended the course with 60. Our church had an IBM Selectric with the interchangeable ball fonts, and I absolutely flew on that at 125. The skill served me well, with several early data entry jobs. When I last tested for a job in the early 90s, I was at 95 on a computer.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2013

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