Spider-Man Post Brand New Day

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Mr Light, Oct 28, 2009.

  1. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ No I checked...it's not the Clone Saga as it should have been mini-series...and that's only four issues. This is the actual 1990's one.
     
  2. TheBrew

    TheBrew Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I just re-read House of M and realized that if they wanted to break up the marriage, that was a perfect point to do it at. Peter ends the series really shell-shocked after having "lived" through being married to Gwen and having Uncle Ben alive again. I think that would make a growing distance between him and MJ more believable.
     
  3. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well according to the Spider-Man brain trust there were apparently discussions to bring back Gwen as well but they felt that would've been too much. If they brought back Harry then I would have liked to have seen Gwen too. It might've actually helped convince me to buy this stuff again.
     
  4. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    I said out, dammit!
    I always liked Gwen more than MJ.
    I guess 'cause Pete was dating Gwen when I started buying the mag.
     
  5. coolghoul

    coolghoul Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Please correct me if I'm wrong but you're talking about the Scarlet Witch "erasing" the marriage, right?

    Problem is that they limited it to her erasing just most of the mutants from existence. And both Spidey and MJ are not mutants. So how would you "make it work" in the context of the story. I guess the challenge is how would you do it without changing the whole storyline (that Scarlet Witch changes more than just erasing the mutants but actually changes the whole world's history by erasing certain events including Peter's marriage).

    I quite enjoyed reading about Gwen in Spider-Man: Blue
     
  6. TheBrew

    TheBrew Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I didn't mean for their marriage to be "erased", but as an impetus for them to break up.
     
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Or how about this: MJ's the one who gets shot rather than May. She pulls through, but Peter becomes convinced it's too dangerous for her to be around him, so he breaks up with her for her own protection. Or maybe he talks Dr. Strange into erasing everyone's memories of the marriage as well as his identity exposure, so that MJ and May will be safe and so he won't have to live with the pain of losing her. There are many ways they could've played it that would've made more sense than what they did.
     
  8. coolghoul

    coolghoul Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    But then it wouldn't have been controversial! :)

    I think making a controversial decision has a more "lasting" effect in comics at least for the fans - the controversy becomes a "memorable" point sometimes outshining everything else. So several years down the line when we would have forgotten the exact years that Civil War happened and that it led to the Secret Invasion and then to Dark Reign etc, we will still be talking about the "marriage erasure in a deal with the devil".

    I was reading the early Avengers ( plodding thru it mostly out of sheer willpower) and whenever I see Hank Pym, I go "Have you stopped beating your wife?"
     
  9. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I think that unmaking the marriage would've been plenty controversial without Mephisto being involved. And I don't think it really counts as a good kind of controversy when a lot of the complaints are over the fact that the plot was just plain badly done.
     
  10. EnderAKH

    EnderAKH Captain Captain

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    The problem is these scenarios would not have accomplished editorial goals. Quesada said in several interviews the problem with the marriage is you can't
    A) have him get divorced, because that makes him seem even OLDER than he is now, and the goal was to make him younger and "more relateable"
    B) Kill off MJ, that makes Pete a widower, same problem.
    Whether you agree with him or not, that is the criteria the story had to meet. Not saying I agreed with it, I liked married Peter, but that was what editorial wanted. So any "they should have done THIS" ideas have to fit in with the goals of editorial.
     
  11. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    But he's just as old the way it was done. Reality wasn't actually altered to make Peter younger, it's just that people's memories of certain events were revised. So he's not actually younger, he's just acting more immature. In the scenario I proposed where Dr. Strange is the one who rewrites people's memories, the result is the same, but the setup isn't as stupid and offensive. It isn't the Devil convincing Peter to do something wildly out of character, it's Peter himself choosing to make the sacrifice for MJ's sake and turning to a fellow hero to get it done. Also it doesn't require the idiotic premise that all the superpowered beings in the whole Marvel universe are incapable of healing a simple gunshot wound, doesn't require making them all powerless in order to set up a contrived and unbelievable scenario.

    Did you miss the part where I said she survives?


    My point is that there were better ways of achieving the same goals.
     
  12. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's easy, have MJ be the one who got shot and then Mephisto appears. He tells Peter he'll heal her in exchange for their marriage, and Peter agrees. He gives up the best happiness he ever had in his life in order to save the source of that happiness.
     
  13. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^Except it's still a deal with the devil, which is kind of anathema to the whole "hero" thing. And, again, it's completely illogical that the most brilliant minds, most powerful sorcerors, and most godlike cosmic entities in the Marvel universe couldn't fix a simple bullet wound even though they've been shown to be capable of far more miraculous feats in the past. And saying that it's just May's "time" doesn't cut it. It's a hollow excuse. If that were the case, then Mephisto shouldn't have been any more capable of changing May's fate than anyone else. It's grossly inconsistent, arbitrary storytelling. There's no legitimate reason why a deal with the devil would've been Peter's only possible recourse.
     
  14. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Simple, that scene of all the world's minds and sorcerors turning Peter down was just an illusion created by Mephisto and Peter was just so desperate he believed it all.
     
  15. LaxScrutiny

    LaxScrutiny Commodore Commodore

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    I think a simpler solution, if you want a reset, then reset the damn universe which is too big and too convoluted and plagued by too much continuity.

    The new(ish) Spectacular Spider Man cartoon is a great story, a great take on the character. It's just the old story told in today's time with a few twists and tweaks. Nothing wrong with that, nothing to complain about, easy for new fans to jump in, easy for old fans to enjoy, and Pete is young and single which fulfills Qesada's requirements. Just do the same thing with the rest of the universe and move on.
     
  16. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Or, given that they already had a young and single Spidey in the Ultimate and Marvel Adventures continuities, they could've just kept the 616-universe Peter happily married so that there would've been something to satisfy fans of both approaches. There's no logic in narrowing your potential audience.
     
  17. BlackestPanther

    BlackestPanther Lieutenant Commander

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    I would have liked to have seen them actually confront the marriage and get rid of it. After the death of May, and with the word being out on his identity, Peter and Mary Jane just can't handle being together anymore. Peter wants MJ back, so he does a few things to try to cover up his identity again. The groundwork was already being laid for that thanks to the Scarlet Spider Squad who had said that Peter was a team-mate of theirs who had been kicked out. Have Morlun absorb some of Peter's powers and, voila, no more Totem-Spider powers and he needs the web shooters again.
     
  18. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I liked the stingers and extra powers he gained after "The Other"...
     
  19. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Other was pretty much rendered irrelevant like six months later...I'm not going to comment on the status of their marriage since I've already stated my displeasure with that decision in other threads.
     
  20. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    I said out, dammit!
    Can we make a deal with the devil to erase Joe Q's dark reign at Marvel from history?