Speculations on Star Trek 3?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by starsuperion, Jun 2, 2014.

  1. The Stig

    The Stig Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    5. Kirk will hang by his fingertips. A bunch.
     
  2. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    I think that Genesis thing will somehow bring Spock back to life...
     
  3. urbandefault

    urbandefault Commodore Commodore

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  4. Ovation

    Ovation Vice Admiral Admiral

    Actually, it served as character development, for Kirk. And not everything in a movie (or a novel, for that matter) has to be in service to the plot.
     
  5. Franklin

    Franklin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  6. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    +1
     
  7. Captrek

    Captrek Vice Admiral Admiral

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    How did it serve Kirk's character development?
     
  8. Smellmet

    Smellmet Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It didn't. It reinforced what we already knew about him at best.
     
  9. Captrek

    Captrek Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I've been thinking about how STID could have developed Kirk's character. It occurs to me that Khan could have served this purpose in an interesting way.

    "Space Seed" describes the lesson of the Eugenics Wars as, "Superior ability breeds superior ambition." Kirk in ST09 exemplifies this perfectly. He's exactly the kind of person who could become a danger like the Augments, while believing he's doing the right thing. So here's my idea:

    The Klingons are preparing an offensive against the Federation. Kirk is able to figure it out and tells Starfleet how to defend against it, but the (relatively speaking) dumbshits running Starfleet don't listen to him. He has arguments with them much like the arguments he had with Pike and Spock on the bridge in ST09, but gets shot down.

    With the Federation in danger, Kirk and fellow genius John Harrison launch an outrageous and illegal scheme, get control of the powerful McGuffin they need, and defeat the Klingon threat. While Kirk is congratulating himself for saving the Federation yet again, Harrison double-crosses him. (It's not that Kirk was so naive as to overlook the possibility that someone with access that that much power might try something, it's just that he didn't think anybody could beat him.)

    Harrison, now revealed as Khan, uses the McGuffin to stage a coup, putting himself and his fellow Augments in control of most of Starfleet — and, by extension, the Federation. He justifies it by arguing that inferior people cannot be entrusted with their own defense. How can Kirk argue against that, after his participation in the scheme to save the Federation from the Klingons? Had he not acted, several Federation sectors would now be part of the Klingon Empire, and the Klingons treat their subjugated peoples a lot worse than Khan did.

    Kirk has to figure out a way to reconcile this apparent contradiction, and also has to find a way to counter the coup. At the same time, he's wary of repeating the kind of arrogant stunts with which he saved the Federation from Nero and the Klingons, since that's what enabled the coup in the first place.

    That could have been a really interesting character arc. Probably not in the hands of Robert Orci, though.
     
  10. Franklin

    Franklin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It kind of sounds more like Kirk advancing a plot rather than growing as a character. There is a kernel of a nice story there, though.

    Kirk's character arc in STID was growing from feeling he has all the answers, is invulnerable, and is flawless (bragging about how he never lost a crewman) to realizing he's knows very little, is not invulnerable and he's terribly flawed. He gains a little wisdom and also knows he has to trust his colleagues under him in order to succeed. He ends the movie much much closer to the Kirk we see in TOS.

    As far as sneaking a peak at Marcus goes, I don't think he'd have done that with any other female crewmember, even if he were tempted. But, I think he was infatuated with Marcus, and just couldn't resist. It also may have been the other way around. Not that Marcus wanted to "expose" herself to him, but it's not like she threatened to call Human Relations (or the Starfleet equivalent) on him on him, either. If he had done that to Uhura, she would've probably kicked him in the groin (and he'd have deserved it).
     
  11. Captrek

    Captrek Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The character growth comes from Kirk looking at the Augments and seeing much of himself in them. Their conduct, in both the 20th and 23rd centuries, is just an exaggerated version of his own, and done for similar reasons. What lessons does he learn from that? How is it possible that he is a hero and they are villains when really they are so similar?
     
  12. Smellmet

    Smellmet Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I can see BC getting unthawed at some point in ST3, as part of the probable Klingon story - maybe the Klingons are demanding the guy that took out their patrol on Kronos - I know a year had passed at the end of STID, but I'm sure major interstellar conflicts take time to happen.

    They must have made the decision not to have him killed off with a view to his return, surely. I wouldn't be overly disappointed to be honest.
     
  13. johnjm22

    johnjm22 Commander Red Shirt

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    I would cut Orci some slack, but I look at every movie he is credited as writing, and I don't like any of them. (The Island was OK)

    If you like Orci's work, then I can understand why you'd be optimistic about ST3. But for someone like me, finding out that Orci is now the main creative force behind ST is incredibly disappointing.

    This will be the first ST movie to come out in my lifetime that I'm genuinely NOT excited for.

    I'll still see it and hope for a miracle, but my expectations are EXTREMELY low.
     
  14. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm pretty sure that Alice Eve's agent made sure they didn't drop the ball as far as any sequel's went. You can't just put another "Barbie" in her spot, you know ... no good can come from that. Alice Eve excites the senses and stimulates the imagination in a way that no one else essaying the role of Carol Marcus could ...
     
  15. Captrek

    Captrek Vice Admiral Admiral

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    For me that was Nemesis, thanks to the leaked screenplay.
     
  16. urbandefault

    urbandefault Commodore Commodore

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  17. HIjol

    HIjol Admiral and Consummate Peacemaker Premium Member

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    ...as long as the PTB keep the Enterprsise central and integral to any writing/plot/screenplay devices, my opinion is the the Enterprise will serve as NuKirks best character growth and development...as She did with KirkPrime...in TOS (perhaps looked at now tongue-in-cheek?) various TOS characters remarked that KirkPrime already had mistress; the Enterprise...NuKirk will grow and develop wtih the needs of his ship (and, by extention, his crew) and mature in the Chair, because She will demand it of him...I cannot imagine any Star Trek without, at some point, the ship being in peril, or the possibility of it...Kirk may have his beach scenes, as 'Frakes so eloquently put it ( :) ) or Napkin Moments, again, credit to 'Frakes, but She will slowly, and then always be First and Formost...IMHO

    ...ya'know, my Mom always did tell me to keep my napkin in my lap!... ;) :)
     
  18. johnjm22

    johnjm22 Commander Red Shirt

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    There wasn't much Enterprise in TVH, and that was a pretty good movie.
     
  19. Smellmet

    Smellmet Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Sounds great - the ships have always been a massive part of Star Trek for me, I want to see more ships of all sides in the next movie, no question
     
  20. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    Personally I'd like to see the Enterprise crew tangle with Cardassians.

    The 2009 Trek movie already established firmly that Starfleet has had some contact with Cardassia in the 23rd century (or at least they have in this universe), certainly some degree of trade has taken place, and it just might be cool to see what 23rd century Cardies were really like.

    The Cardassians would provide something old and something new both at the same time. :)