Space Seed Lost Scenes

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by TrekToday, Mar 14, 2013.

  1. Joker

    Joker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Where on earth do you come up with this unfettered shite?
     
  2. Marsden

    Marsden Commodore Commodore

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    Actually, they hadn't established it as 23rd century at the time and dialogue suggests the 22nd century. Which actually strengthens your point, being only 200 years rather than 300 years removed, but just mentioning that 23rd century was not established until WOK, a long time after Space Seed.

    Anyone that idolizes Abraham Lincoln would certainly know what glasses are for and how to use them, furthermore anyone who knows about the shoot out at the O K corral in Tombstone would know about them.
     
  3. Grant

    Grant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The scene with the glasses IS restored in the director's cut--including McCoy explaining that the odd looking things are anchient glasses.

    It does NOT cut away between the lines mentioned in the director's cut---the scene is extended.

    And someone clearly has confused the TWOK script with the Space Seed script.

    It was Meyers idea to introduce the whole "these people are aging" theme in the movie and I'm pretty sure he didn't rumage cut scenes from the original episode to come up with that.
     
  4. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Let's remember that Kirk's historical knowledge seems to be very narrow: 19th century United States, exclusively. He's lost at sea in early 20th let alone late 20th century United States, and has never demonstrated knowledge of other geographic areas of Earth in his own era let alone any historical ones.

    This would be understandable if Kirk lives in the here and now, and has studied a very specific incident of "ancient" history plus its immediate surroundings as a hobby. Perhaps he knows about gunslingers because he's a fan of Lincoln, or vice versa.

    Now, had TOS indeed taken place at one of the "alternate" timepoints offered - a few more centuries in the future, from where we're looking - his narrow focus would probably mean he would not know about spectacles or lightbulbs or typewriters, as these would be quite peripheral to his interests. And he'd know basically nothing about tommy-guns or cell phones, as that stretch of history would never have been his hobby, yet it would have been such distant past that not even his granddaddy would ever have told him stories or shown him pictures.

    It's the mere 250-year gap between the last spectacles we see and Kirk's days that makes it all so difficult to swallow. But perhaps people in the future are not particularly history-conscious overall? I mean, we might all plausibly have seen photographs of the walking aids polio victims had to wear, but in general those are far outside our experience, and we'd certainly need instructions to make use of those.

    In the end, it's just as well that this is idle speculation and the news turned out to be false. But Kirk should still never be mistaken for somebody who knows his Earth history!

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  5. Grant

    Grant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The theory was that although Kirk would recognize goggles, or protective eyewear or even sunshades---he wouldn't easily recognize the small, spindly Fraklin 'half-glassess' readily.

    Of course, if he was alone he would have examined them and figured it out. But seeing as how they were a gift and McCoy was standing right there, he just says, "What is it?"


    Not a mind blowing leap for such momentary confusion, IMO.

    And yeah folks the ABC/Director's cut that includes the extended dialogue has been seen since 1982---you might want to check it out!
     
  6. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

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    If my memory serves me correctly, the "look over the top of the lenses" line was actually not in the special, longer ABC cut of the movie first broacast in 1985. I don't think that particular line of dialogue shows up until the 2002 "Director's Cut" DVD. It's possible that the Tenutos never new that, after twenty years, the "filmed but never released" scene actually had finally been released.

    "Gentlemen, we're debating in a vacuum. Let's go get some answers."
     
  7. Grant

    Grant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It's a little complicated...

    There are 3 versions of the glasses scene......

    1. the theatrical (Kirk knows what they are)
    2. the ABC/DC (Kirk asks and Mccoy tells him)
    3. an even longer version I saw in the rough cut 'workprint' they hace at UCLA film school in LA.

    In that version Kirk is a little unsure of how to use the glassess and McCoy tells him to look down to read and look over the top to see normally.

    So it was shot in it's entirety and cut 3 different ways.
     
  8. scotpens

    scotpens Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The teaching-Kirk-about-the-glasses thing is like the bit in "Shore Leave" when Sulu somehow thinks it necessary to explain how a gun works. "It fires lead pellets propelled by expanding gases from a chemical explosion." It's bad writing -- a cheap way of saying "Hey, this is the future!"

    Does a modern archery hobbyist have to explain how the flexible bow stores potential energy, which becomes kinetic energy propelling the arrow forward when the bowstring is released?

    EDIT: After reading some of the preceding posts, I do see how Kirk might possibly be a bit unsure about how to use the antique-style half-spectacles.

    They'll take Shatner's toup when they pry it from his cold, dead scalp! :p
     
  9. Franklin

    Franklin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, he'd have figured it out, but the script calls Romulan ale an INSTANT DRUNK, so maybe Kirk was already a bit addled when he saw the glasses. And then, there is a knack to wearing and using reading glasses properly for the first time.

    I always thought that while the glasses were a nice antique, they were probably a gag gift or given to make a point. I doubt McCoy really meant for Kirk to ever wear them. I think the glasses were McCoy's not so subtle way of broaching the subject of Kirk letting himself grow old rather than getting back into the action.

    Also for what it's worth, what happens to all the other farsighted people allergic to Retinax V if no one wears glasses in the 23rd century? Do they stay farsighted? There must be other ways of correcting their vision, like a form of 23rd century laser correction surgery.
     
  10. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Commodore Commodore

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    In "The Cage," set in 2254, we see a transporter technician wearing horn-rimmed glasses that would not have looked too out-of-place in 1964.

    http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x00hd/thecagehd0411.jpg
     
  11. TIN_MAN

    TIN_MAN Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That's because the actor forgot to take his glasses off after a break when shooting resumed, and nobody noticed until it was too late, so they went with the take anyway.
     
  12. Grant

    Grant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah i always figured those glasses were not meant to be seen.
     
  13. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

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    So, did anyone attend the "History of Star Trek" program that was held on March 21, 2013 at the Aspen Drive Library in Vernon Hills, Illinois? College of Lake County professors John and Maria Jose Tenuto were suppose to present a bunch of stuff regarding some "never released to the public" information regarding "Space Seed." Did anyone go to the presentation (or know someone who did)? What ended up being the specifics of this new information?