Space Seed Lost Scenes

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by TrekToday, Mar 14, 2013.

  1. TrekToday

    TrekToday Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Going through the papers of Star Trek Writer/Director Nicholas Meyer, college professors John and Maria Jose Tenuto uncovered plenty of behind-the-scenes information from Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan that has not been released to the public. A further search through UCLA archival materials uncovered information about lost scenes, both filmed and unfilmed, for the [...]

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  2. A beaker full of death

    A beaker full of death Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I always wondered how the silly rumor got started that Montalban wore a plastic chest for TWOK. Was it so hard to believe a man of his age stayed in shape?
     
  3. James T. Vader

    James T. Vader Lieutenant

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    Didn't see anything about an attack on London, trips to Kronos, or Enterprise under the ocean...
     
  4. M

    M Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Is this stuff legit? How and where exactly would the "McCoy teaches Kirk how to use glasses" scene fit into "Space Seed"? And is it really confirmed that Carey Wilber wrote the original story only two weeks after the premiere of the show?
     
  5. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    There are two drafts of the story outline in the Roddenberry files at UCLA. One is dated 8/29/66; the other is dated 9/1/66. Those were both finished before the show premeired in the United States.

    The story linked to in the original post, however, references the first draft of the script. The one in the Roddenberry files is dated 12/7/66, a couple of months -- not weeks -- after the show premiered. There's also a final draft (credited to Coon and Roddenberry) in the Bob Justman files, dated 12/13/66, at least according to the finding aid.

    I have no doubt that their findings are legitimate. They're not trying to prove an argument as far as I can tell, so there really isn't any reason for the two academics to falsify their research.
     
  6. M

    M Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Oh, okay, many thanks for the info! I was unsure about the timetable there. I'm still baffled about the fact that glasses scene was written for "Space Seed", though.
     
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    My guess would be that the glasses are a 20th-century artifact found aboard the sleeper ship, and McCoy explains what they were used for.
     
  8. Nightowl1701

    Nightowl1701 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The "McCoy teaches Kirk to use glasses" scene," if it would fit anywhere, would be early in the episode when Khan's recuperating in Sickbay. What would a bunch of genetically enhanced "supermen" need with glasses, anyway? Kind of defeats the whole purpose...

    But I'm having a hard time believing it - Kirk certainly wasn't middle-aged in that episode, nor would Roddenberry portray him as such even in a story outline. James Blish was clearly working from an earlier version of the screenplay (probably the 12/7/66 draft), and he didn't include it in his novelization. And if this page is any clue, it's certainly not in the 12/13/66 draft.
     
  9. SchwEnt

    SchwEnt Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The eyeglasses scene doesn't make sense.

    I can buy Kirk questioning their presence in his 23rd century (where vision problems don't require mechanical eyewear).
    I can buy the fact that eyeglasses are a rare sight in everyday life in Kirk's time.

    But I don't buy Kirk needing McCoy to explain how they function. Certainly Kirk is vaguely familiar with photos of people from history, and there are millions of such photos of people wearing eyeglasses. Kirk should know what those things are, how they were worn. It shouldn't be a mindboggler for Kirk.
     
  10. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    No doubt why the scene was cut.
     
  11. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Remember, this was from an early draft of the script written before the characters as we know them were well established. Sure, the Kirk we know today is a history buff and knows what glasses were, but the Kirk Carey Wilber knew when he wrote the draft was still much more vaguely defined.

    And as Harvey suggests, there are a lot of things in first-draft scripts that don't work or don't make sense, which is why they're called "first-draft" instead of "only-draft."
     
  12. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

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    Well, my hunch is that Mr. Bruce Ingram from the Lake County New-Sun just got some facts mixed up. I see that in The Wrath of Khan script, there was the following conversation betwen Kirk and McCoy:

    They drink. The package is opened: a pair of gold
    "Ben Franklin" half-glasses. (N.B.: Romulan Ale is
    an INSTANT DRUNK: both men react.)

    KIRK
    Cheers. Bones, these are... charming.

    BONES

    Four hundred years old. You don't
    find many with the loens still
    intact.

    KIRK
    Uh -- what are they?

    BONES
    For your eyes. For most patients
    of your age, I generally administer
    Retlax Five to restore flexibility
    of the lens.

    KIRK
    But I'm allergic to Retlax.

    BONES
    Exactly. Happy birthday.

    He toasts. Kirk is unsure how they work.

    BONES
    (continung)
    Slide them down your nose. Now look
    at me over the top. And you read
    printed matter through the bottom.

    KIRK
    (reacts)
    Amazing! I don't know what to say.

    BONES
    Say thank you.

    KIRK
    Thank you.

    An awkward silence.

    (etc. etc etc.)


    So when the article says "But the real finds involved lost scenes that were filmed but never released," I'm thinking that this "filmed but not released" scene was from The Wrath of Khan, not from "Space Seed." I think someone simply misunderstood--either Mr. Ingram or T'Bonz. (Maybe the unused scene was unused in both productions--but I think it's probably referring to just TWOK.)
     
  13. Nightowl1701

    Nightowl1701 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    But it was filmed, and it is in the movie.
     
  14. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

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    Well. not really. It cuts from Bones' "Exactly. Happy Birthday," to Kirk's "I don't know what to say." The "teaching Kirk how to use the glasses" line wasn't used. It's this line that's missing in TWOK. But someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  15. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

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    Oops. Double post. Sorry.
     
  16. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    That makes sense. You're probably right.
     
  17. mos6507

    mos6507 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Was that part of the scene shot? There are some strange transitions in tone in Khan that I've attributed to directing quirks that might just be snippets of dialogue cut out, and one of those weird timing things happens around that point in the scene in Kirk's apartment.
     
  18. T'Grinch

    T'Grinch Romulan Curmudgeon Administrator

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    It's not my error. And I've not seen the proof, so I can't tell how accurate the reporter was. However, one of three things seems to have happened:

    - The WOK glasses scene is based on an old unused scene from Space Seed (perhaps the stuff was consulted when WOK was being produced)

    - The reporter got it wrong and it's from WOK.

    - The Tenutos mistook a scene from WOK for one from Space Seed.

    Wish I knew the answer!
     
  19. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ...Of course, thematically "Space Seed" could use a scene or two where the inferiority of Kirk's genes is highlighted. So what if he's nearsighted - he can still defeat a physically superior specimen with his hands tied behind his back, because, well, he's the good guy and fights with a pure heart! (Unless that's genetically inferior, too, and has been replaced by a machine... But apparently that scene was among the ones cut, and had to wait for two decades to see use. :devil:)

    But even then, it would be odd that Kirk would have to receive tutoring on the use of glasses. Perhaps in an ideal world, "Space Seed" would have launched a story arc of sorts where Kirk's age gradually begins to show, Shatner ceases to wear the wig, etc...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  20. A beaker full of death

    A beaker full of death Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Wouldn't happen - Shatner did doff the wig for The Deadly Years, but he's very self-conscious about his hair.

    When filming the criminally ignored Never Say Never Again, Connery wanted the play the ageing Bond with his own balding pate, but was ordered back into his wig one more time.