Sons of Mogh... AWFUL ending

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Mr_Homn, Oct 1, 2012.

  1. Mr_Homn

    Mr_Homn Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm really enjoying my run through of Deep Space Nine, but every once and a while, something happens that really bugs me.

    This is one of those times. Sons of Mogh is one of the worst episodes of the series. What makes it even more annoying, is that the episode is pretty good up until the resolution. But the ending was so horrible and disgusting that it totally devalued the rest of the episode. That was the biggest cop out I've ever seen in this show. Not only that, but it was totally character assassination for Doctor Bashir. No honorable and good doctor would EVER erase someone's memory without their consent, and the fact that this was Worf's idea made him seem very dishonorable. Not only that, but Miss "I respect and love klingon culture" Jadzia Dax seems very anti-klingon culture in this episode. She talks the talk, but doesn't walk the walk.

    I read that Ron Moore said that "it wasn't hard to imagine Worf coming to Bashir and explaining the situation, and Bashir saying 'okay well that's your culture'"... Moore said that he just wasn't interested in writing that. I don't buy it. I can't imagine Bashir saying that, and it's NOT klingon culture to dishonorably erase your brothers memory. I think Moore just didn't know what to do here.

    This episode pissed me off. It especially pissed me off because Tony Todd as Kurn was always extremely entertaining, and they basically threw his character away for no good reason in this episode. At LEAST have him die honorably in combat, with a satisfied look on his face. But no, instead, as a result of an extremely non-klingon and dishonorable decision by worf, Kurn is reduced to an empty shell at the end.

    Also some cringe inducing Worf/Dax flirtation. I'd accuse the DS9 writers of ignoring the previously established "Rough klingon" style of romance that appeals to worf (we see this with kheylar[sp]), but the TNG writers already did that when they paired him up with Troi, so I give the ds9 writers a pass here. They were just following the pattern that TNG set.

    I'm going to pretend this never happened, and move on. Ds9 is a great show, but they really screw the pooch occasionally. (Yes, so did TOS and TNG, but this one really annoyed me because it ruined a great character, and made me lose respect for Ds9worf and bashir)
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2012
  2. { Emilia }

    { Emilia } Feminazgul Moderator

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    For what it's worth I completely agree with you. I think there are three episodes that annoy me like that:

    - Sons of Mogh for the reasons you mentioned.

    - Hard Time: Being in some sort of mind prison for decades is going to alter your personality and leave psychological scars. They dealt with that way too casually.

    - In the pale moonlight: Didn't agree with what Sisko did, didn't agree with him getting away with it with no further consequences, didn't agree with his "I'd do it again" at the end of the episode.
     
  3. Trek Survivor

    Trek Survivor Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah, Kurn should've died saving Worf's life or something. Give him a 'happy' (in Klingon terms!) ending.

    Bashir's casual memory wipe and everyone going along with it is terrible.
     
  4. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I dunno, for me I thought it made a lot of sense from Worf's point of view. It really hit home Kurn's point about how domesticated Worf had become and how he had really accepted human morality along with his Klingon beliefs and the two conflicted inside of him.

    It's not like we haven't seen Starfleet people erase people's memories with or without consent before in any other series. Either way Kurn dying in this episode would have been predictable and bland. It's what I liked about DS9, they were willing to shake things up and take chances. It couldn't always turn out great, but it showed they were trying.
     
  5. pimp

    pimp Commander Red Shirt

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    for me it is an ok episode. Yes the ending is weird where they basically brain wash him. But I have always like Tony Todd's acting and voice.
     
  6. Jono

    Jono Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I have some issues with the ending, but I do like that they tried to do something other than the clich├ęd "honourable death" for Kurn.

    I did think we would see Kurn come back...I also thought that about Tom Riker as well.
     
  7. mupps

    mupps Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Hadn't we seen Worf act un-Klingon like in already in "Birthright". Where after finding the survivors of the Khitomer massacre Worf straight out tells the leading elder Klingon that he would not have killed his father if he had been amongst the survivors but would have embraced him...
    The other Kilingon was almost disgusted by that and hoped his own son would have killed him.
     
  8. Unwrapped

    Unwrapped Continuity Spackle Moderator

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    I tend to agree. I think one of the main points in the episode is how important the concept of culture is to a person, and Worf having to face the fact that despite all his attempts to be a real Klingon, in many respects he isn't one. He still values Klingon culture, but he was raised by the Federation. And the Feds don't typically put one's sense of honor or family above the individual in the ways that Klingon society emphasizes.

    FWIW, the script also has some unused dialogue for some of the scenes, like when Dax apologizes to Worf. I sometimes wish they'd leave more of those lines in.
     
  9. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The worst part is that a Year later Worf got his Honor back and he never spared a thought for what he'd done to Kurn.
     
  10. Jimi_James

    Jimi_James Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Yeah, they seemed to completely forget about Kurn later on once Worf had gotten his honor back, which I suppose could be argued that it would have been cruel to try and disrupt his new life, if he could have even have his memories restored. But even if he couldn't, they should have at least mentioned Kurn in some regard or even found a way to work him in...not Kurn specifically but the new person he was, so that Worf had to deal with it...perhaps showing up some time during the war in some respect...it would have been nice to see Tony Todd again. He was one of my favorite DS9 character actors and did not only a great job as Kurn but as old Jake to.
     
  11. Worf'sParmach

    Worf'sParmach Commander Red Shirt

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    I pretty much agree with everything the OP said abou this episode. Good premise, horrible ending

    e
    I thought the same thing. I just knew we'd see Kurn again especially with what we know about Klingon physiology being redundant and self healing.

    This bugged me as well. I'm wondering if there were some issues with getting tony Todd back.

    I wonder what Martok would have said about what Worf did to Kurn...
     
  12. Admiral_Sisko

    Admiral_Sisko Lieutenant Commander

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    Given that Worf never told Martok about Alexander, it's possible he never mentioned Kurn, either.
     
  13. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^

    Possible? I'd say dang likely. Worf's not exactly a chatty person even to the select few people he does like.

    How cool would it have been though if Kurn was around regularly(like Martok, Damar, etc) as a security officer?
     
  14. Worf'sParmach

    Worf'sParmach Commander Red Shirt

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    There's no way Worf would have told Martok about Kurn. But Martok finding out some other way would have been interesting.
     
  15. Worf'sParmach

    Worf'sParmach Commander Red Shirt

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    I wonder if Jadzia would have liked Kurn better ...
     
  16. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    For a guy who cares so much for his family honor and such, Worf sure is crappy when it comes to his blood family. First he abandons Alexander for years and then what he did to Kurn. At least we know he loves his human parents.
     
  17. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I thought it was established early on that for Klingons, caring means abandoning. That's how honor manifested for the Klingon officer that Riker chatted with in "A Matter of Honor" already: if family honor is stained, then the culprit is shunned forever, as even killing him would be too good for him.

    The closer the family ties, the greater the shame, and the greater the need to cut all contact, or perhaps cut throat if one can bring oneself to do this service to somebody who doesn't deserve it. All for the good of the family and the name.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  18. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Who knows? Though I doubt Kurn would have liked Jadzia at all. Even if he wasn't stated to have daughters and by proxy a wife.
     
  19. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    yup. Reminds me of an episode of "House" where they erase a guy's memory and it ends up having nothing to do with the guy's medical problem.


    I don't know WHY they had this ending if they were always planning to restore Worf's honor.
     
  20. Kira Nerys

    Kira Nerys Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I hated the way Sons of Mogh ended .The way Worf and Dr.Bashir did away with Kurn essentially was not in character with either of them .Bashir is a healer and in later eps he doesn't do anything with the patients consent of next of kin.As for Worf,I just didn't buy it being any honorable death for the klingon spieces as a whole.Totally non believeable,off charcter episodes of the series run.It was the same for me ,with the ep In the Pale Moonlight ,what Sisko wasn't penalized for what he did ? Did the romulans ever figure out that it was Garak that riggered the shuttle to explode ,to trick them into getting into the war ?