Something I just noticed about WoK

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Dale Sams, Mar 12, 2014.

  1. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Only two references are made to Marla McGivers. Both indirect. One about being killed by a Ceti Eel, and the other some 55 minutes later:

    "I will leave you as you left her, marooned on a dead planet."

    Props to the producers for not pounding us over the heads with the exposition hammer.
     
  2. Leto_II

    Leto_II Captain Captain

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    There was at least one direct reference to Lt. McGivers in the shooting script (and was, presumably, filmed), but this didn't make it into any of the final cut(s) of the movie:

     
  3. Brutal Strudel

    Brutal Strudel Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Good thing they cut it.
     
  4. LMFAOschwarz

    LMFAOschwarz Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah, it wasn't necessary. Also, it reads, to me at least, a bit too much like the old comic book school of writing: "But...but you're dead! I saw you die!" "Fool! That is what I wanted you to believe..." . :lol:
     
  5. Clark Terrell

    Clark Terrell Lieutenant Commander

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    Make it stop.
     
  6. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    There was also a reference in a conversation between Turrell and Kirk.

    Turrell: He blames you for the death of his wife.

    Kirk: I know what he blames me for!
     
  7. Clark Terrell

    Clark Terrell Lieutenant Commander

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    Ahem...
     
  8. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    Turrell, Terrell, tomato, to-mah-to.
     
  9. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The art of subtly in script writing. You don't need to beat the audience around the head with information, sometime a slight tip of the hat is more than enough.
     
  10. Maab

    Maab Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Yes, it was filmed. It's in the workprint.

    Best,
    Maab
     
  11. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    What subtlety? They actually wrote and filmed a scene that mentions McGivers. It just didn't make the final cut of the film. Not sure how you give the writer(s) a pass for it?
     
  12. Leto_II

    Leto_II Captain Captain

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    Although, to be sure in this particular case, the screenwriter was also overseeing the film editing, so we can probably give Meyer SOME credit for nipping this one in the bud. ;)
     
  13. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    See, this is what I'm saying every time this Trek continuity baggage discussion comes up. You don't NEED to know the episode Space Seed to understand the movie. All you need to know is that Kirk exiled Khan after he tried to take over the ship, and that his wife died in exile. That's it. You don't need to know any specifics.

    There is also no episode that shows how Kirk met Carol. Or an episode that shows how Saavik met Spock. Same thing as if Space Seed had never existed to show how Kirk met Khan.

    All those “Can't do this or that because the audience will be confused.“ Forget it, it's absolute bullshit. From the point of view of a newcomer, there is no fucking difference between a backstory reference to an event in a previous episode and a backstory reference to an event that has never been shown before. No difference at all.
     
  14. Clark Terrell

    Clark Terrell Lieutenant Commander

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    I agree. Not everything needs loads of exposition behind it. There's no explanation for why Chekov is on Reliant or why Kirk is an admiral again after TMP, but none of these things should dampen one's enjoyment of the film. If anything, I think it's more fun to speculate on what happened between the films to get to where things stood at the outset of TWOK.
     
  15. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    People don't seem to understand how collaborative a process film is. Meyer may have cut it at the end but he still wrote and filmed the dialogue. The trim may have also come from input from someone else, like Bennett or even a studio exec.

    Movies and TV aren't made in a vacuum where the writers vision comes to the screen in its original form.
     
  16. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Commodore Commodore

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    Well, that's pretty specific for a sequel to Space Seed.

    The difference is that TWOK is a sequel to Space Seed--the movie would not exist if not for the characters and situations of that episode, unlike (then) previously unknown meetings between Carol and Kirk, or anyone else. Once you base a script on another story, you do have an obligation to connect some dots in a film catering to the TOS fanbase.
     
  17. BoredShipCapt'n

    BoredShipCapt'n Commodore Commodore

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    It doesn't quite work without the emphasis:

    BUT...
    BUT YOU'RE DEAD! I
    SAW YOU DIE!

    FOOL! THAT IS
    WHAT I WANTED YOU
    TO BELIEVE...
     
  18. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It isn't specific at all. You could even leave out the "take over the ship" part. The "wife died in exile" part didn't even happen in the episode.
     
  19. Shat Happens

    Shat Happens Captain Captain

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    fwiw, I hadn't seen Space Seed when I first watched STII and I enjoyed the movie fine.
     
  20. Kronos

    Kronos Admiral Admiral

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    No kidding, that reads as bad as some of the crud new trek has produced.