So which planet did Starbuck....? *SPOILERS*

Discussion in 'Battlestar Galactica & Caprica' started by Gep Malakai, Mar 28, 2009.

  1. Tau Ceti III

    Tau Ceti III Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Astronaut speaking to alien for the first time - "We come in peace from a planet called Earth"

    Alien double checks his translation device - " You come from a planet called "Dirt" ????"
     
  2. Jerikka Dawn

    Jerikka Dawn Commander Red Shirt

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    The only reason there were two Earths at all in season 4 was because there was a writer's strike and "Revelations" and "Sometimes a Great Notion" was supposed to be able to stand as a series finale in case the writer's strike didn't end in time.

    There are no mysterious in-story reasons. Reality happened and they had to re-think 4.5 when the writer's strike ended.

    Saying it was "God", though makes perfect sense, since Ronald D. Moore is God from an in-universe perspective.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2009
  3. David cgc

    David cgc Vice Admiral Admiral

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    What's your source for that? The pre-strike 4.5 outline still had them finding a second Earth, according to everything Moore has said.
     
  4. Jerikka Dawn

    Jerikka Dawn Commander Red Shirt

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    I have no doubt about them planning on finding the Earth we saw in "Daybreak." I'm not so sure about the "Revelations" Earth.
     
  5. David cgc

    David cgc Vice Admiral Admiral

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    For what reason? All the way back to the end of season 3, back when they were deciding if the show was going to go four or five seasons, RDM said he had two more chapters in mind for the show. It was obvious to me at the time that the last one was going to be the post-Earth chapter, and all his discussion since then about the ruined Earth made it clear that his plan had been to give the characters one last kick in the balls, to make a show that was always about the preservation of hope actually as bleak and depressive as all the critics claimed, and then still have hope win out in the end.
     
  6. Brutal Strudel

    Brutal Strudel Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Far more likely, the alien would say "Oh yeah, well we're from earth, too. Wanna fight aboud id?"
     
  7. TheMasterOfOrion

    TheMasterOfOrion Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Cucumis sativus
     
  8. David cgc

    David cgc Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Incidentally, there were some scans of Starbuck's recon photos in the second prop auction. You can see them here. Looking more closely, you can see Africa clear as day in the bottom picture at the sidebar. I'm sure the photos were supposed to be of the Cylon Earth, but either the graphics department hadn't been let in on the secret yet, or they figured no one would be able to tell it was there on-screen.
     
  9. Frontman

    Frontman Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    RDM said with his own words that when Kara died she was on Earth 1.0

    MR: So Kara comes back in "Crossroads," she says, "I've been to Earth"…

    RDM: She had been to that Earth. The original Earth.
    http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune...ca-daybreak-finale-moore-mcdonnell-olmos.html

    But they cheated or changed their minds in the last moment, because on Kara's recon photos you can clearly see that it is our Earth because you can see Africa
    [​IMG]

    It's Africa and Arabia
     
  10. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Who is John Galt?
    ^^^ Yup - It's snippets from this ubiquitous stock shot from one of the Apollo missions:

    [​IMG]

    They would have been better off generating something using Flaming Pear's LunarCell.
     
  11. Peacemaker

    Peacemaker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Because it was all part of God's plan. What was God's plan?

    To unite the entire human family, which included all 13 tribes, and for them to learn to work together. That also included them learning the truth about each other.

    So, Kara came back with the song. The song activated the Four. Kara was the catalyst that united the rebel Cylons to humanity. It was in the presence of three of the Five that her Viper began homing in on the beacon of her old Viper. It was finding Earth 1 that led both humans and Cylons to the truth about the 13th tribe...and so on and so on.

    Those aren't plot holes.
     
  12. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    The visual effects guys must have known, since the continents are deliberately obscured and the moon isn't shown, but I suppose the prop guys (or set dressing guys) weren't in the loop on that secret. The images aren't seen well enough on screen, anyway, so why would the writers let more people know than had to about what was coming?
     
  13. Cartoonist

    Cartoonist Captain Captain

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    Those photos don't prove it was supposed to be our Earth at all. It shows a bit of land bisected by some water. Your mind is filling in the rest of Africa and Arabia when the continents actually aren't visible.

    In-story, it's a glimpse of one small area that just resembles the horn of Africa.
     
  14. Saul

    Saul Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    So is her Viper an Angel too?
     
  15. Supreme Admiral

    Supreme Admiral Captain

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    You're right. It doesn't answer our question why or where did she went. It was god's plan to send Starbuck back to send the message to human race that she found earth 2.0 and unite them in order to survive. But that bothers me a little bit, why didn't they just live on their new home world in the first place? Humans and Cylons could have co-exist in peace without bloody war! Was that god's plans to having them fighting against each other??
     
  16. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Who is John Galt?
    No, that is incorrect.

    those photos are snippets of the Earth photo taken by one of the Apollo missions that I attached in my above post. You can clearly see Africa and that large curved band of clouds right next to it in the Indian Ocean. The REAL correct statement here is that the production team who put these props together never intended for such up-close scrutiny of something that was only briefly seen.
     
  17. Cartoonist

    Cartoonist Captain Captain

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    No, it is not incorrect. We all know where they got the source photo, but what they did with it, obscuring everything but a tiny portion of it, is indisputable. There is nothing "clear" about that image other than that they took an image of our Earth and purposely concealed almost all of it. It's a fact. Because of that opaque shadow, it is also a fact that your mind is filling in the rest of the photo.

    You're letting yourself get hung up on the origin of an image when that's irrelevant. I once created a quick digital painting of an alien world, and I used the same exact Apollo image as source material before Photoshopping it up: adding shadows, changing the hue and contrast, etc... By your logic, I must have intended for that to be a painting of Earth, since I used an image of Earth with which we all happen to be familiar.

    Yes, that's what they used to trick us into thinking it was our Earth.

    That "large curved band of clouds" is not a permanent fixture on the Earth. If you're really using that cloud formation to prove this is supposed to be Earth, then it logically follows that what you're really saying is Starbuck swiped the original Apollo photo from NASA and passed it off as a recon photo.

    "No, that is incorrect" to assume you know what they intended. The production team has heard of DVR's. They knew full well that after three years of build-up (or a life-time of buildup, if you count those of us who grew up on the original BSG), tons of fans were going to hit rewind and then pause when they showed us the first glimpse of Earth.
     
  18. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Who is John Galt?
    And I'm assuming you have a contact in the former prop department and/or a link to an interview of the same supporting this in-universe claim? My argument follows Occam's Razor. Anything else would require evidence to corroborate.
     
  19. Cartoonist

    Cartoonist Captain Captain

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    Last I heard it was the guy who was claiming to know something as an absolute fact (a.k.a. you) that bore the burden of proof, not the guy who's saying we don't know anything for sure (a.k.a. me). I shall now steam my tea, butter my crumpets and adjust my top-hat while I await the posting of your link to an interview with your contact in the former prop department supporting your in-universe claim.

    If I had a dime for every time some forum dweller paradoxically cited "Occam's Razor" to justify his own leaps in logic, I'd be paying my rent in dimes for a year, my landlord would get angry, I'd be homeless, and... I digress.

    You're claiming it's a clear image of Africa. That's obviously false, it's obscured by a rather large shadow. You're claiming that because you know the source image was the Apollo photo, that's proof positive it was supposed to be our Earth. That notion ignores every SFX shot we've ever seen in a film where they used something familiar to create something alien. It also ignores my anecdote about how I once used this very same Apollo image to create an image of an alien planet, and how my use of the image did not mean I intended it to be Earth. "Occam's Razor" calls for the fewest assumptions possible, but your theory is based entirely on assumptions. Mine is based on one simple and indisputable fact: the shadow covers nearly the entire image and the continents are not visible. Only the horn of Africa is visible, and any planet with oceans can conceivably have some region that resembles the horn of Africa.

    Man, I haven't had a nerd-fight in a long time (not since Voyager, I think). This is invigorating. I feel alive.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2009
  20. Gep Malakai

    Gep Malakai Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'll throw you an extra piece of ammunition: Talos IV in classic Trek's pilot "The Cage" was a modified image of the Earth's moon. So, was Talos IV actually supposed to be our moon?
     

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