So what's with all the Archer hate?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by jibrilmudo, Oct 15, 2013.

  1. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I don't think it's instinct, I think it's a trained martial art.
     
  2. Yanks

    Yanks Commodore Commodore

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    I would agree, with this exception.
    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKDQtlgct6g[/yt]
     
  3. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^Oh god Soval is so hot..

    And yes, that is a good speech. Though slightly distracting the way Archer keeps lurching from side to side as he walks around.
     
  4. BlackMasakari

    BlackMasakari Ensign Newbie

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    My best friend told me, he didn't like this series at all when he watched the first german synchronized episodes and he stopped watching at all.
    Mabye it had a little bit to do with my overall very-pleased conception of Star Trek in that time (i started very late, late in my 20s about in 2005).
    Don't like ToS though - for me, it was just out-dated, don't care about the "roots" of Star Trek.
    TNG was astonishing, though sometimes still pretty cheesy.
    ST: Enterprise i watched only the first few episodes in english first - i wasn't captured but i wasn't appauled either.
    Then i took my heart and kept watching more episodes.
    It pretty soon turned out to be quiet fun and a goddamn decent series for the Star Trek universe.
    What alot of ppl don't understand is really what an accomplishment it was to make this series, setting far before the previous series' at the very start of the foundation of the foderation of planets.
    Apart from Blalock being extreme eye-candy and a very good actress, this series really took off at alot of episodes.
    Archer, imo, is one of the same reasons. I am very fond of Bakula's acting i didn't know him before ST.
    He brings dignity, great dignity with him, not like Patrick Steward, but, imo, that really cannot be achieved by anyone at all.
    But he carried the spirit bravely about a man that is open to the universe but still doing what he must and doing what he mustn't when it comes to his crew.
    Thats all i have to say - i love this series and not just since Season 4 :)

    yours, Martin Lutz, germany
     
  5. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    I think it is. I was probably just fantasizing, as one of my favorite Ray Bradbury short stories is "The Small Assassin", about a murderous infant.
     
  6. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Do NOT let the adorable baby wrap it's little arms around your neck as you cuddle it..
     
  7. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    I've never been a parent, so I'm always fascinated how you can hold your little finger out to a newborn, and they seem to instinctively grab onto it and hold tightly.
     
  8. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's to make the big people like them and want to make sure they don't die.
     
  9. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Since I've been babysitting a my nephew who's only a few months old these past few days....

    It's the same instinct that causes them to stick every thing from their finger to anything they can grab in their mouth. It's out there and they can do it.
     
  10. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    So they're cannibals. I knew it....
     
  11. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Heck they're even sticking their fingers in their mouth inside the womb.
     
  12. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm not trying to be contrary here, believe me ...
    But this speech is, again, just way too long, for one thing.
    And if memory serves, Archer wasn't given the mic, really,
    he just started yackin' away, at the first whiff of an opportunity. At least he stays on topic, this time.

    T.V. series Kirk was OK at impromptu speeches. Like when he and Doctor Pulaski were going to let alien minds control them, for the sake of science - and to kiss up, a storm! Even that was a bit long, but Shatner's hammy delivery at least livens up the proceedings, a bit. Archer's speech, on the other hand, smacks of pompous pretension.

    Even Soval's applause at the end seems forced, like he's trying to save face for Archer, in front of all these dignitaries ...
     
  13. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's because he's clapping, a human thing.
     
  14. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes, but why would he even attempt something so awkward and strange for him, unless his motivations were along the lines of my proposed theorem ...? Not unlike the applause Heywood Floydd received from his costars in 2001: A Space Odyssey, after his rather stilted monologue ...
     
  15. Yanks

    Yanks Commodore Commodore

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    I hadn't heard anything about Archer improvising.

    I'm just having trouble finding fault in this performance or words.

    Speaking if speeches, the speech he gives before he's going to man the torpedo and destroy the weapon was a good one too. The problem with this one was we all know Archer wasn't going to die.
     
  16. gblews

    gblews Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    To interpret Soval's applause at the end of the speech in this way would imply that you may have missed the fact by the time Archer delivers his speech, Soval has gained much respect for humans. I think it started with the debriefing in Home, after Archer's version of the events in Impulse are corroborated by T'Pol. Well that and the fact that Archer and his crew had managed to save both the Earth and Vulcan when they destroyed the Expanse.

    By the writers allowing Soval to show his appreciation and respect for Archer and the humans by doing something as un-Vulcan like as applauding, it was like Manny was acknowledging how bad Archer's previous speeches had been and just how much better the Terra Prime speech was.
     
  17. Yanks

    Yanks Commodore Commodore

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    Don't forget this exchange in Home:

    ARCHER: Ambassador. I want to apologise for what I said to you the other day. I was out of line.
    SOVAL: Yes, you were.
    ARCHER: I'm glad we can finally agree on something. SOVAL: Captain. Your actions, while being morally questionable, were necessary. I opposed your appointment as captain of Enterprise, but it's obvious now that I was wrong. T'Pol has told me that the Expanse would have someday encompassed hundreds of systems, including Vulcan. You've done a great service for both our worlds. (holds out his hand) Thank you.
    (they shake)


    ...and the trust Soval placed in Archer when Star Fleet headquarters was bombed.

    Plenty of respect and trust shown by Soval with regard to Archer.
     
  18. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They are ALL clapping. Andorians, Tellarites, Vulcans. They are showing respect for a human's words using a human gesture.
     
  19. Archer_to_T'Pol

    Archer_to_T'Pol Cadet Newbie

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    Agree 100%.
     
  20. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Apparently, most of you are of the mind that Archer's speeches improved, as the seasons progressed. Perhaps this was the case. However, they continue to be overly long, much to Bakula's disservice. The content of these speeches never sounds sincere, rather, they are rather naked in their "inspirational" pandering.

    His delivery of which is so conscious of their intended import ... that they invariably end up sounding as pretentious as they are and monotonous. Soval's awkward gesture at giving applause, yes, was designed to demonstrate that Archer had indeed delivered a successful speech, in this regard. And the set up simply wasn't going to allow for Soval to be alone in his applause, so that doesn't sell it for me. It rings false, I'm sorry. It simply does not "play."

    Whilst I want to place all blame for this on Scott's doorstep, the direction shoulders much of the blame, itself. It always comes off as pompous pander, designed to run the clock and this UFP Begins speech is no exception. Being of the miniority opinion, in this ... has taken me by surprise.