So, rewatched STB this week; Mission into the nebula...

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by JasonJ, Dec 29, 2016.

  1. JasonJ

    JasonJ Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Rewatched the movie, still loved it.

    But here's what got me thinking again, after reading some posts here about how mostly jovial the remaining crew is at Kirk's birthday party aboard Yorktown, despite so many crew members having been lost (ya know, the people you lived and worked with the past 966 days?).

    Perhaps, do we think, that not all of the full crew compliment was aboard the Enterprise when it went into the uncharted nebula on Kolara's deceptive rescue mission? Assume normal crew compliment is similar to prime timeline Enterprise, between 205-430 depending on which in-universe decade and what source you read; would they really need to send, or risk sending EVERYONE on what should be a fairly straight forward rescue? Really the only reason the Enterprise was sent was because of her navigational sensors being the best (of the currently constructed vessels).

    If perhaps they left all but 100-120 crew on Yorktown, that would explain how Scotty is able to fit "everyone" that survived onto the tiny-arse Franklin. They only show I think it was 3 rounds of 20 people being beamed up, so assume that's all, maybe with one more not shown, and we got roughly 70-90 crewmen aboard the Franklin at the end of the movie.

    If all 400ish crewmen were aboard the Enterprise when Krall attacked, that would mean that roughly 300 of them died. If they had only taken about 120-150 crew with them in the first place, and assume roughly 20-50 perish in the swarm attack, things start to make a little more sense as to how everyone fit on the Franklin, and why the remaining crew isn't quite so depressed at having experienced over 300 of their friends and colleagues killed in a vicious attack in space.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Ovation

    Ovation Vice Admiral Admiral

    While not specifically indicated in the film either way, having just re-watched it the other night, a skeleton crew for a short rescue mission seems a plausible scenario.
     
  3. Desert Kris

    Desert Kris Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I speculated on exactly this in another topic thread. I was trying to reassure myself, and make sense of how many people can fit into a ship as small as the Franklin seems to be. Also, quite a lot of escape pods seemed to be jettisoned, so I assume quite a lot of crew survived. Finally, I can't imagine Krall and his buddy ate all that many of the crew in such a short amount of time.
     
  4. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It makes some sense. Also since the E had pretty much just arrived at Yorktown and Kirk was being pretty blase about this mission, I could see him not seeing a need to recall the entire crew before departing, perhaps rationalizing it as being better to get the non-existent trapped people rescued sooner rather than later.

    That would actually play into Krall's hands even more; obviously easier to get what he wants from the E if it's not fully-crewed at the time.

    ...troubling to consider that Our Heroes might have figured out how to defeat the swarm in time if the E had been fully-crewed, though.
     
  5. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Spock seemed to know they were fucked immediately. I'm not sure how much difference a full crew (either 400 from the ST'09 script or 1100 from the old Experience the Enterprise AR site) would have made, if they weren't already so equipped.
     
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  6. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Not being sure whether it would have made a difference is part of what makes it troubling. :p
     
  7. Pubert

    Pubert Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I just rewatched the film and I couldn't tell how much of the crew was left for sure. I am guessing only about 40 or so survived if I go by what was on screen. It looks like scotty only beamed up two groups of 20. Still not sure though. I figured if over 300 people died Kirk would be in trouble for losing most of his crew. So could it really have been over 300 lost crew members lost? Also if more than 300 died Kirk would have been more upset. Maybe there were more off screen that we didn't see because they didn't land in the same area after evacuation.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
  8. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    I think we're to assume more groups were beamed to the Franklin between scenes, so to speak. That said, I can't see more than 200 being saved in total. And that from a total of either 400 or 1100 depending on your source.

    I bet Kirk misses that first year where he didn't lose anyone under his command...
     
  9. Pubert

    Pubert Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    See if that many people did die I would figure there would be an investigation. Also shouldn't NuKirk have at least blamed himself to some degree or been outraged at the loss of life? Most people would have at least blamed themselves to some degree even if it wasn't their fault. Maybe not totally his fault but he was in command and I would at least expect an investigation before he gets a whole new starship and new crew. Possibly only a few people died and most of the crew was saved. I really wish they would have delved more into the loss of life. I haven't found anything from the writers on this subject yet but it would be nice to get a little clarity.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
  10. Sean_McCormick

    Sean_McCormick Captain Captain

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    One could guess that, since the rescue mission was launched on very short notice, that the Enterprise only carried a skeleton crew and most regular crewmembers stayed behind at the starbase.
     
  11. Pubert

    Pubert Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's a possibility.
     
  12. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    As the topic of this thread is a near-duplicate of the topic to a thread which was started on Thursday, I'm going to merge the two.

    Hold onto your drinks, everyone...
     
  13. JasonJ

    JasonJ Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    That's what I figured happened as well. It fits with the lack of space aboard the Franklin, the speed with which Scotty beamed them all aboard in groups of 20 (at most), and the lack of emotional distress and a formal investigation after the fact.
     
  14. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    When I watched the film, I assumed skeleton crew. With the starbase so nearby, they didn't need a full complement to assist in a rescue/search and salvage operation.
     
  15. solariabsg25

    solariabsg25 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Seems to me it was intended to be a simple in-and-out, not the first stage before continuing the five-year mission. Maybe anticipated a mission lasting couple of days tops, so there probably wasn't a need for a full crew. Would they have needed a full scientific exobiology teams, or stellar cartography for example? Probably full medical staff, search-and-rescue trained personnel, security, and engineering staff, so in all likelihood a maximum of 50% crew.
     
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  16. Pubert

    Pubert Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Even with 200 plus there was possibly 100 to 150 deaths. NuKirk had a chance to back off when the swarm was coming their way but didn't. I would think with the large loss of life and the loss of the ship NuKirk would at least be investigated before he was given the NuEnterprise-Nu1701-NuA. Maybe NuKirks "episodic" missions are more successful which is why he gets away with messing up the big missions.
     
  17. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm sure there must have at least been a Board of Inquiry proceeding to determine whether Kirk should face a court-martial. Isn't that how things went with Picard and the Stargazer?
     
  18. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Commander Red Shirt

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    Yup. Confirmed in Measure of a Man (the judge in the Data v Maddox case was the prosecutor (and Picard's gf at the time).
     
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  19. Pubert

    Pubert Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There should have been but it looks like Kirk just decided to stay a Captain and he was rewarded with a brand new Enterprise. Whats troubling is that nothing was even said about all the crew members that were lost. NuKirk didn't even seem to care about the loss of life at all. I know he is a self absorbed version of Kirk but come on its a little much. Nothing in the last 3 movies that we have seen has shown him to be a great and competent Captain. Maybe the missions in between the films are more successful.
     
  20. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That they don't show a Board of Inquiry doesn't mean one didn't occur. Do you think people going to see the movie really wanted to see that?

    When in the movie would you have liked to see Kirk bemoan the loss of life? When he had his hands full saving whom he could, or would a token one-liner at the end of the film have sufficed?
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017 at 4:10 PM