Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Hespen, Feb 8, 2013.
^The show did need some type of clunky robot character, wait sorry they had Harry.
I like Harry! You need to build layers in a set of characters. If everyone one was as big a personality as Tuvok, The Doctor and Seven of Nine or as feisty as B'Elanna or as determined as Janeway it would be too much. He's the straight guy to Tom. He has his own quiet, dignified set of traits.
Neelix is the one that I think could get the chop - but that's just me and I haven't seen the whole complete series.
Well I'll admit, and have admitted before, that I always thought Harry was hot and I would go on a date with him.
Wasn't a big fan of Kim, but Kim and Paris together were a good team.
Torres wasn't my favorite engineer but I thought that she made a good couple with Paris.
I didn't care much for Chakotay. It's mostly Beltran's fault I think.
I liked Janeway, but the writing for her character was uneven. Mulgrew really respected her role and the series and her place in the ST universe so I give her credit for that.
Tim Russ was really magnificent. He was basically an uncanny black Spock(Nimoy).
Neelix...had his moments. He was almost like a Trekkie along for the ride. That could either be refreshing or annoying.
Kes. I'm indifferent to her.
7 of 9. Its unfortunate that she played the de facto hot chick, she was a good actress with a good role and had lots to do. She instantly became the most interesting character on the show.
Doc: Picardo was great in the role.
Overall, not too shabby I think, but still the weakest cast.
For me the weakest cast as far as riveting characters go is TNG and always will be. So much blah.
I adore my VOY but cast wise DS9 wins by light years, also has far more characters.
I have some unusual ideas on the cast I think. Firstly my favorite cast is not necessarily the best cast. That would be STNG. It's strength may be chemistry as well as two standout stars with Spiner and Stewart, easily the best captain of Trek.
Best cast from top to bottom, surprisingly to some probably is Enterprise, it's solid throughout, without any one character really standing out save maybe Archer because of what he represents in history or Trip, because he is likable (I normally am not a huge fan of southern characters either). There isn't one I dislike and they all have their moments on the show.
Deep Space Nine is second. Another strong cast, with probably the best female character in all of Trek with Kira. Odo, O'brien, Sisko all have strong moments.
I have to mention TOS, they have strongly identifiable archetypes, are well known but the secondary characters are not developed enough nor are the actors good enough to stay on screen for any length of time.
I never knew there was so much hate for poor Harry!
Neelix could be annoying, but most of the time he was ok.
The only character I really didnt care for was Chakotay.
About Seven of Nine....I like her as a character, but I dont like the way she took focus away from the other characters. AND...One of the things I hate the most that TV shows do is replacing characters! Adding a character is fine. Losing a character is fine. Replacing a character makes it feel less like a real story and more like...well, a TV show.
^This. I started out watching TNG, but once I saw TOS back when I was a kid, I started loving it more because the characters were better. Not enough conflict on TNG.
The very best episodes are almost always those where characters argue with each other. It's true of all the series. TNG, DS9, VOY... they (mostly) adhered to a "friendly friendly" approach between the major characters, but the very best episodes are often ones where two or more of them disagree about something. This was the original thinking behind putting the Maquis into Voyager, and not for nothing was Ro Laren so admired in TNG (she was someone who almost inevitably drew the others into conflict with her).
I agree on what you said about Harry and Neelix. Why so much hate for Harry? He was just trying to be a good officer! Poor Harry... Yes, he was a kiss-up, but who could blame him? He was straight out of the academy and on his first mission, he got stranded in the Delta Quadrant. That is some crappy luck. And even after that, he still tried his best always. He wasn't the most interesting character, but I will blame that on the writers. I have a soft spot for Harry too because I also play the clarinet. Band geeks stick together!
As for the Neelix hate --> I do enjoy poking fun at Neelix (cat? yes), but he was still one of my favorite characters. He started out using Voyager as just a means to free Kes, but ended up being very valuable to them. And even though he did not possess standard Starfleet Academy skills, he was native to the Delta Quadrant, which helped a great deal. And he cooked for everyone and tried to even make Tuvok smile. You can't hate on that!
I can't say I dislike any of the Voyager characters. I love all of them. If you remove any of them from the show...it's not the same show anymore.
That said, Kes was a little bit too one-dimensional in the first two seasons. Her spouts about THE DOCTOR IS REAL! And her super-duper kindness all the damn time. And...imagining her and Neelix getting it on also =
However, we all know that Kes changes in time... And gets replaced by a hot ...
But even though Kes is replaced and that is too bad for any series, "token hot chick replacement" turns out to be one of the funniest and most well-played characters on the show with a complexity that some other characters did not have (they underdeveloped characters like Harry and Chakotay compared to Seven of Nine).
I have not watched the entire Trek franchise (currently watching season 1 of DS9 now), but having seen all of the films, most of TNG and TOS, as of now VOY still is my favorite cast.
There is a unique sense of humor generated from the Doctor/EMH, Seven, Tom, Tuvok, Neelix, Janeway, and the rest of the characters that I believe other Trek series lack, in my opinion. But, I have always preferred comedy over drama. Sci-fi in and of itself will always be my favorite genre, but sci-fi mixed with comedy, without it making an entire joke of itself, is the best kind for me. I think the Voyager cast was the only cast to pull off the comedy without making it seem forced. It had just enough comedic moments to notice it as a special feature of VOY that other series didn't have without making it the focal point of the series.
Is it the most profound series of Trek? Maybe not. Did they use too much time travel and Borg? Maybe. But it has a great comedic angle and a special chemistry among the characters that I find the most enjoyable to watch.
I wouldn't say Voyager had the best Trek characters, altho it's my favorite series (and I loved TOS & TNG, liked DS9 mostly), but it certainly doesn't have the worst cast; by a mile that was Enterprise, altho they weren't horrible, either. I enjoyed the cast interactions of Voyager a lot (well except for a certain "couple" in Endgame lol), and that's usually what attracts me to a TV show, besides good stories, and also the atmosphere sometimes.
I love Seven, but indeed hated the coupling. J/C for me.
I wouldn't say horrible. Badly written at times.
Ex: The whole Seven and Chakotay deal, ewe.
And not once did they utilise any of that to ramp up the dramatic potential in the character.
Completely agree, the comedy and the chemistry so often delight. The characters and the show is bright and colorful in a way that shines. And since I love time travel and the Borg I'm a happy camper.
You'll love DS9 though, there is plenty of humor there as it goes along, though more often with the supporting characters.
Yeah, I like DS9 so far. But I am so used to the way Voyager's comedy works, that it is very different to watch. But I am enjoying it nonetheless. Kira is kick-ass!
I am sure every Trek series has something unique and special about it and for Voyager, I think it's best achievement was it's ability to be funny, snarky, witty, and bright without compromising it's main premise.
Like DS9, it was character-driven but had a lightness to it even though its general situation (being lost in the Delta Quadrant and being 70 years from home) is actually one of the seemingly most dark premises you could come up with...yet it seems to be the most light-hearted of the series from what I can tell. And I love that.
I missed the bit with the Sheep? Was this some arcane Indian custom? He trades Seven for a Sheep with Queen? I mean seriously? How do you do that safely? Squeeze a lamb into a torpedo casing like a high tech sausage and fire it at the collective while running away at warp 8?
They didn't have time to throw in some "Chakotay's people" custom into that episode. Personally, I'm glad they didn't.
I actually thought about it and either during the lapse between "Renaissance Man" and "Endgame", the most likely development of the Seven/Chakotay thing () either came from 1) Seven just being completely direct like she is and saying "I like you. Let's copulate!" or 2) Chakotay finds her "Chakotay and Seven are dating" holodeck program and is like "Whoa she likes me?" and then runs to the Cargo Bay (or Astrometrics).
To be honest, even though I hate C/7, I think Seven was probably using that holodeck-Chakotay to prepare her for "the real thing". It's just annoying that you never actually see them decide to start dating so you're left with "Where the HELL did that come from?"...
What's up with all the Seven/Chakotay hate? It was hinted at in some of the episodes leading up to the finale. I didn't think it came out of nowhere at all. In fact, it was kinda hot......
Oh I'm a fairly hardcore J/C fan.
That should explain my personal dislike of C/7.
It doesn't speak for everyone!
As for other viewers who aren't J/C fans but feel it was "too sudden"...I would just say that the relationship seemed sudden from Chakotay's side. He had never expressed romantic interest in her prior to "Endgame" as far I could tell (he was obviously not aware of his holographic simulation). Do you have any examples? I can't think of any indication of romance between them besides that holodeck program.
Seven's romantic interest in HIM was made clear in "Human Error" with her holodeck program. But, that wasn't the actual Chakotay. Chakotay wasn't aware of it.
Something that viewers did not get to see was them asking each other out or deciding to date, that kind of thing.
We got to see the whole relationship progression with Tom and B'Elanna. It was much more developed.
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