... So long as you remember all the people that you used to be!

Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by Robert D. Robot, Feb 5, 2014.

  1. Robert D. Robot

    Robert D. Robot Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    "We all change.... when you think about it. We're all different people all through our lives. And that's OK, that's good... you gotta keep moving so long as you remember all the people that you used to be. I will not forget one line of this.... not one day, I swear..."

    I am not sure if this has been discussed before here (I suspect that it might have been & I simply missed it), but Eleven made quite a nice observation about growing & changing through life- not only for a Time Lord, but for us humans, too.

    Does anyone think this is setting us up for Capaldi's Doctor actually forgetting and going for a while NOT remembering who he is, to be played out over a few episodes? Not the usual post-regeneration disorientation for part of an episode, but a real identity crisis and re-discovery that figures into the plot of more than one episode? I think it might, but I hope it only does last for a short bit of the next series.
     
  2. Count Zero

    Count Zero Welcome to the Danger Zone! Moderator

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    Maybe but then again, I think this issue would be resolved within the first episode. It would be an interesting storyline, though. We are used to the Doctor being a near all-knowing entity - he usually knows a lot about any aliens he meets and planets he lands on. But the first couple of Doctors weren't like that. The Doctor not knowing much more than his companion would harken back to that era.
     
  3. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Doctor is the Doctor, he should remember who he is. It might be interesting for a story for him to forget, but it would get old quickly.

    Mr Awe
     
  4. Candlelight

    Candlelight Admiral Admiral

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    His outfit is a bit of pertwee and a few other doctors but I doubt they'd make it a significant plot point.
     
  5. sttngfan1701d

    sttngfan1701d Commodore Commodore

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    I don't know if I'd enjoy that, to be honest. I think that whatever memory loss Twelve has will be rectified in the space of an episode. Because (1) I've seen enough amnesia storylines in movies to be tired of them and (2) Clara really isn't in any position to help him regain his memory. She can't fly the TARDIS, so she needs him to have his memory, really. And she could take him to the TARDIS library or that room with a bunch of his past keepsakes we saw last year, but that's about as much as she could do. It wouldn't be enjoyable to watch.
     
  6. BlastHardcheese

    BlastHardcheese Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    A man is the sum of his memories, you know. A Time Lord even more so.
     
  7. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    With the TARDIS going all wonky, I wonder if somehow she doesn't recognize him.
     
  8. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    I'm of the opinion that forgetting how to fly the TARDIS is nothing more than a temporary lapse in memory due to post-regenerative troubles and that within the first twenty minutes of the premiere (likely less) his memories will be restored. The amnesia storyline was one of the low-points of the 96 telemovie and as a result we already have a Doctor unable to remember much about himself for a significant portion of his television run. I doubt Moffat's in any hurry to make that mistake again.
     
  9. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Maybe in the moment the Timelords had the crack open, they figured out all the trouble the Doctor has caused and took away his ability to fly the TARDIS....again.

    Then Capaldi can move the console inside an allotment shed.
     
  10. sidious618

    sidious618 Admiral Admiral

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    The dialogue definitely applies to humans and I thought it was really beautiful.
     
  11. The Mighty Monkey of Mim

    The Mighty Monkey of Mim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I am not at all against the OP's idea, but I should like to point out to all the people who keep repeating that he's "forgotten" how to fly the TARDIS: he hasn't. The Doctor has never known how to fly the TARDIS! He pretends he knows. This was an aspect of the show from its earliest days, an still is; do we not remember the scene in "The Time Of Angels" where River follows him around correcting all his misapprehensions about which controls do what?

    The TARDIS flys herself, and depending on factors such as her state of repair or her "mood," she variously cooperates with the Doctor's wishes or doesn't.
     
  12. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Doctor has definitely learned how over the centuries. He can now reliably return Clara to her home at the exact right point and pick her up again the next morning!

    If he wants to get to an exact point in space and time, he usually gets there now.

    That never happened (or was extremely rare) in the original series.

    Mr Awe
     
  13. Mark_Nguyen

    Mark_Nguyen Commodore Commodore

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    I think this speech really defines the difference in how different showrunners treat regeneration:

    Russel T Davies treated regeneration as death, full stop. It felt like dying, it hurt like dying. His Tenth Doctor dreaded it like death. A new guy walks away with your name and your clothes. But it's not you. 'Coz you're dead.

    Steven Moffat treated regeneration as change. The Eleventh Doctor's beautiful finale speech is proof enough. You're not dying, you're just changing into a different person.

    I subscribe to the Moff's opinion on this. Back when Tennant made his exit, I posted here that it SHOULD be like change instead of death. As illustration, I pointed out that in 2010, I was a new father, with a different career, home, and marital status than in 2005 when Ecceston finished his time. Hell, I even looked significantly different, having lost a ton of weight in the interm. If 2005 me had met 2010 me, they would still be fundamentally the same person, but would look and think and feel differently -and I suspect they'd get along as well as any multi-Doctor story has shown. 2014 me is different yet again, perhaps not as drastically, but still not the man who saw the Tenth Doctor regenerate four years ago.

    THAT is what regeneration is a metaphor for, to me, and I think we can all sympathize with that sort of notion. Doctor Who is about constant change as a central theme, using alien invasions and doing good deeds and regeneration as proxies to our real lives.

    Mark
     
  14. Robert D. Robot

    Robert D. Robot Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I, too, agree that Eleven's words/reflection on the importance of remembering 'all the people you used to be' is quite a beautiful statement. And it might be just that, with no foreshadowing of any ironic plot twists to come. But -on the other hand- maybe receiving a new regeneration cycle is actually more disruptive than we might have thought.

    For myself, I have no interest in seeing the Doctor go for some long story arc involving his amnesia. On the other hand, having some character(s) from his past reappear MIGHT provide for a couple of interesting episodes where some other plot problem is solved AND the Doctor's memory is triggered along the way (This all depends, of course, on what the concept is and how well-written it is).

    The Doctor having trouble flying the Tardis is not what triggered this thought in me (after all, he had only regenerated about 10 seconds earlier), but the Doctor's quite thoughtful speech did make me wonder about the possibility of a memory loss as a plot point.

    And as another point, considering how destructive the last regeneration was to the Tardis, I wonder if she should have overrode the Doctor's actions to 'takeoff', and stayed put!
     
  15. Robert D. Robot

    Robert D. Robot Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Very well said, Mark Nguyen! I agree with what you've shared.

    And I do think the Doctor has learned over the years how to pilot the Tardis better, while we also do know from "The Doctor's Wife" that the Tardis has quite often taken him where he 'needed to go', rather than where he had planned. However, it seems like he has REALLY gotten better at it since that adventure, and perhaps that has to do with some better understanding that the Doctor and the Tardis now have of each other. I think of the comment Eleven made to Clara about how "It's much better than it used to be" and how he spent "a helluva long time trying to get a gobby Australian to Heathrow Airport."

    [And, yes, I am aware of how some in Australia might view that last line differently from someone from the UK....!]
     
  16. Mr Awe

    Mr Awe Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^ Probably my comment that you're referring to about flying the TARDIS, but agree.

    Mr Awe
     
  17. Mitty

    Mitty Vice Admiral Admiral

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    LOL nah, we pretty much view Tegan the same as the rest of you ;)

    I didn't enjoy a lot of the Xmas Special, but Matts final scene and the speech quoted were definitely a high point, I was surprised at how emotional it made me and still does when I rewatch it. It certainly makes me think back on my life. You go to school, and then leave it... quite likely you won't see most of those people ever again. You start a new job, make friends, leave it... same thing. You start a relationship, you finish it. You move from one town to another. We may not change appearance or erupt in a firey explosion, but our lives might have many chapters each very different to the other. Matt's speech certainly underscored that to me.

    What is the next Chapter, for each of us.
     
  18. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    So it's canon that Clara lives in the same apartment building as Rose and her mother did?

    Does this reliability always work, or does Clara have to be carrying a turkey dinner?
     
  19. Australis

    Australis Writer Admiral

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    That speech touched me deeply (which is why it's in my sig).

    I'm aware now, as I get old, that not only am I not the person I once was, I'm also not the person I will yet be. The change is constant. And that is a good, good thing, if I can just reach out and take advantage of it. I'm currently dropping my weight, and if I grow my beard back, I can try on one "of the old favourites", looking like a greyer verion of myself c.30 years ago. :)

    But yes, it hit me powerfully in that moment that we all regenerate, just not into a completely different face.
     
  20. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    I really do think that Matt Smith's regeneration scene in "The Time of the Doctor" is the greatest regeneration/goodbye scene in Doctor Who history. It's perfectly written, perfectly shot, perfectly acted. It's bittersweet and hopeful at the same time. I love it.
     

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