So is the pressure on Superman?

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Galactus, Aug 3, 2008.

  1. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Auld Lang Mod Moderator

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    Well, I didn't know that they actually used "tolerance" in the Kirk Alyn serials, so it looks like I owe Galactus an apology. (Please don't eat my planet.) I would still contend that "Truth, Justice, and the American Way" is the most iconic version of that slogan, but in using a version that goes back to the '40s, the Big G wasn't himself imposing a revision on the mythos, which renders my point moot.

    That would be Batman.... :p
     
  2. Galactus

    Galactus Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What do you think "the American Way" means today anyway? I am sure in the world today it does not mean much. Even to Americans it means different things. I would say about 1/3 thinks it means one thing, 1/3 thinks it means another, and the other 1/3 either probably believes a mixture of the other two or doesn't care.

    I didn't even know there was a fall out to conservatives for leaving it out. I am sure for the
     
  3. Chess Piece Face

    Chess Piece Face Commodore Commodore

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    What was the greatest thing about Dark Knight - the most "faithful to the comic" Joker, Batman, and Two-Face ever seen.

    What was the worst thing about Superman Returns - An entire movie full of things that were not faithful to the comic, but where instead faithful to a 1979 movie with random modern updates out of left field.

    The pressure better be on, and the fix is simple. Reboot. Get a guy that looks like Alex Ross painted him. A big, strong, wise Superman. Make his enemy someone iconic from the comics and do him faithfully.

    You will have millions of dollars and the goodwill of fans. SIMPLE.
     
  4. I've been reading Richard Donner and Johns' "Last Son", and this would have been a MUCH BETTER story exploring Superman as a father, while still having tons of action.
     
  5. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, one quibble is that the Joker in the comics didn't paint his face or dye his hair. They were permanently coloured that way as a result of a chemical accident. So that wasn't faithful to the comics. However, TDK featured the BEST version of the above characters seen onscreen yet (IMH).

    Actually, I'd cite Kate Bosworth's somewhat dull and too young Lois as well as overly-slow pacing. And a rather uninteresting plot by Lex. Though I still like the movie a lot. And I take some of your points about the emphasis on the 1979 movie - the depiction of Luthor in particular.

    Did Christopher Reeve look like Alex Ross' Superman? Hmmm, not overly. But many people still think of him as the definitive Superman and he's still arguably the most popular depiction of him. The guy in those World's Finest fan trailers does, but Routh could out-act him anyday. And to me, he captured the essence of Superman, even if he looked a little too young. But that problem will be solved, given the time that's elapsed since SR.


    I think if the sequel to SR contains more action, gives Superman more to do, more sparring and interaction with Lois and a worthy opponent, it'll generate as much goodwill as any reboot. Let's face it, a lot of people won't care if it's a sequel or a reboot. Just as long as the bloody thing entertains.
     
  6. Out Of My Vulcan Mind

    Out Of My Vulcan Mind Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Superman: The Movie was released in 1978, by the way. :)
     
  7. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly. The only ones who are overly-obsessed with the style and look of SR are the fanboys.

    For everyone else, all they really care about is whether a movie is fun, action-packed, and fast-paced. If the SR sequel manages to be all those things, then it'll make more than enough money.
     
  8. Bad Bishop

    Bad Bishop Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Do you folks believe that a reboot would absolutely require recasting all the roles?
     
  9. Out Of My Vulcan Mind

    Out Of My Vulcan Mind Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There'll definitely be disagreement about this, but I think it would require recasting the roles - certainly the lead roles. It would muddy the marketing waters way too much to keep Routh and/or Bosworth in a reboot.
     
  10. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Auld Lang Mod Moderator

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    I'd be happy if they kept Routh but recast the suit. Lower the neckline a bit, make the "S" a bit larger, brighten it up a tad...and does anyone else think it's strange that Batman's running around in a cloth cape while Superman's is all leathery...?
     
  11. Bad Bishop

    Bad Bishop Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If not for Lois' son in SR, we wouldn't be hearing so many calls for a reboot.

    I'd keep the cast and place my hopes in the next screenplay to make things “right” (and that doesn't necessarily mean getting rid of Jason).
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2008
  12. Chess Piece Face

    Chess Piece Face Commodore Commodore

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    Yes, I think reboot has to = new actors. Routh was nothing but a Reeves stand in, he had zero presence, hell, Lois boyfriend was not only more heroic, easier to root for, but more charismatic as well.

    And the kid? C'mon.
     
  13. Galactus

    Galactus Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Why else would you do a reboot if you are not going to recast the character's. There was no real need to recast the Incredible Hulk but they did, and the characters fit more than these do.

    All that said, I have no problem with Routh staying and everyone else leaving. It seems like he is getting plenty of work now so he doesn't need the role anymore.

    What we need now is a predictions thread, so we can start predictions on what will happen, so we have proof of who was right and who was wrong. :techman:
     
  14. Bad Bishop

    Bad Bishop Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think we were lucky in the case of The Incredible Hulk. As for recasting the next Superman film, my view is "be careful what you wish for." Remember some of the names that were tossed around before Singer found Routh.

    Regarding the problem of Superman's son, I think the new writers should work on it before the studio takes the drastic step of throwing Singer's cast over the side.
     
  15. Crewman6

    Crewman6 Commodore Commodore

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    Agree 100%!

    Time for a "Do over", everyone.
     
  16. I'm definately ready for something new. It of course depends on who takes over, it could be a Tim Burton thing all over again, but as long as they get someone good, I'd love to see it.

    Routh was a charming Clark Kent actually, but I'm just very tired of constantly aping the Reeve movies. He was a great Superman, but I think people don't give the general audiences nearly enough credit when they insist that people will only accept a Reeves type as Superman.

    That's because he's the only guy to BE in a live action Superman film, they've never had a chance to "accept" anyone else.

    I love the Donner film, but it's 2008 and that was 1978, THIRTY YEARS ago. An entire generation has grown up watchign things like TAS, Smallville, and JLU. We can give it a rest with the worship for that film. The next Superman should not be a ChristopherReeve-imitator.
     
  17. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Auld Lang Mod Moderator

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    ^You're forgetting George Reeves, who began his stint in Superman vs. the Mole Men.

    They had to, because Shrek was asking for way too much money this time.
     
  18. T'Baio

    T'Baio Admiral Admiral

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    I have a lot of problems with Superman Returns, but Routh was not one of them. I thought he was fantastic and would really hate to see him go. I even loved Kevin Spacey. Kate Bosworth, however...ugh.

    I'd really like to see Singer get his chance at The Man of Steel. After Returns, the studio will keep their eye on him and make sure he sticks to the script, which is what was needed on Returns. As long as he has a leash on him, and there's a fantastic script, I think Singer would make an incredible Superman film. Just don't let him shoot every whim he has during production and convince an editor with things that completely muddy the themes.
     
  19. Yassim

    Yassim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Agreed.

    Above, you refer to changes Singer made in the script. What were these changes?
     
  20. T'Baio

    T'Baio Admiral Admiral

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    It wasn't so much he changed the script, but Singer has a tendency to come up with spontaneous ideas on set, and then shoot them...kinda' like a fanboy. "Hey...wouldn't it be cool if we had a flashback to Superman as a kid jumping through the cornfields? We're already out here shooting his return. Hey, producer, figure out how we can do that!" Two days later, they're shooting that in an improvised schedule. (I'm not saying that's how that scene came to be, just an example.) As he does that more and more, and he falls in love with his ideas, the original theme of the picture begins to be lost. It worked for him in the past, X2 is a fantastic film, but it is the source of some of the casts displeasure with the working experience, most notably Halle Berry's.

    The original theme of Superman Returns, which was contained much more in the script, was how would a world who was used to Superman react to his disappearance and how would that world resent him when he returned? This was shown in a macrocosm and in microcosm through Lois. You can still see this in tiny bits and pieces throughout the film, but it is diluted and pretty much lost in all the film's digressions. I don't know for sure exactly what scenes are Singer's indulgences, but I predict most of them are Luthor bits, small action beats, and mostly the overt Donner nostalgia.