So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by Dale Sams, Apr 27, 2013.

  1. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Not quite. By First Ep time about an hour passes before Picard says "No, we'll proceed to Farpoint Station", and Worf says..."Captain, the security of the Federation is at stake!"

    Now granted, yes, Picard is going off mission.
     
  2. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And all it takes is a sappy speech by this stranger who's giving erratic orders, going off mission, and talking to letters of the alphabet about how they're the finest crew in the fleet and they're willing to charge head first into a destructive spacial anomaly for no apparent reason.

    Guess the Enterprise crew will go to the ends of the galaxy with a pat on the back, but can't handle a stern lecture.
     
  3. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    :guffaw:
     
  4. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Maybe Jellico should have brought a guitar, a banjo for Riker and had a rousing showdown.
     
  5. Mojochi

    Mojochi Commodore Commodore

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    Maybe instead of saying "Get it done", Jellico should have just given every order & followed it by saying, "I know you can do it, because I think you're special", you know... like Mr. Rogers

    You know... I'm trying to think of anyone that came through there in a one off situation who actually got treated receptively their entire time, and I'm having a hard time doing it. lol. Granted, the vast majority of one offs were in some way conflictual. that's just how tv works. It's just kind of funny that almost no one but their small group ends up getting along with them their whole time. Tom Riker, Scotty, Jellico, Nella Darren, Shelby, Sonya Gomez, poor Simon Tarses & pretty much every character from Lower Decks just plain struggle to be tolerated. rofl

    Wait a minute! Bashir! Bashir manages to get through his visit without being treated like a D-Bag. I knew there'd be somebody :lol:
     
  6. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    ^You forgot Barclay. He had it worse than anyone. But I agree that Picard's senior staff seemed to have a clique of their own that barred outsiders from being able to fit in. They were able to get away with it on the Enterprise, but I wonder how they'd have done in situations where other crews were involved. We never hear of any Enterprise crew members having friends outside their own crew, whereas Sisko and company seemed to have friends all over the Federation, and beyond.

    --Sran
     
  7. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    In a wonderful inverse...Admiral Mark Jameson is treated well, (He is an Admiral after all)...but the actual cast carps about the guest star commandeering the show.
     
  8. T'Cal

    T'Cal Commodore Commodore

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    Those here who questioned Jellico's decision to go to a 4 shift rotation show clearly that you have little to no experience working in a chain of command/rank & file type situation. You may leave the fleet now. Go. Leave my sight!

    Jellico is an experienced and successful captain and you think just because you can't think of a good reason to do that he shouldn't?? Off to the brig with you, you pantywaist! How dare you question his orders? As explained in the episode, he knows how to deal with the Cardies, and you young upstarts simply don't so piss off. He saved billions of lives by using sound tactics to avert a war that was sure to be long and bloody - and maybe not successful. So I raise a glass to Edward Jellico - one of the finest captains to serve in Starfleet! As for you group of nancy-boys, you disgust me! Go swab the deck on some garbage scow. Make room on the flagship of the fleet for some Officers with backbone, pride, respect, and honor! <spit>
     
  9. Tiberius

    Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    lol.

    I can't speak for others, but my line of reasoning is not "If it was a good idea, I'd be able to understand why."

    My line of reasoning is, "If it's so good, why didn't Picard already do it?" Since Picard didn't do it and I know thjat Picard is a very good commanding officer, then I can only conclude that a four shift rotation isn't necessary.
     
  10. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Pretty poor line of reasoning.

    It implies that every situation is equal and there is only one "correct" way to do things.

    Picard was running a peace time explorer/diplomatic taxi. Jellico was gearing up for what could have been full-scale war.

    Plus, we have no proof that Picard switched back to three shifts when he returned to command.
     
  11. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    We do know that Troi started wearing the uniform much more after Jellico left.:techman:
     
  12. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    Precisely. I'd add that each captain themselves learned from different commanding officers earlier in their careers. We don't know exactly why Jellico preferred a four-shift rotation as opposed to three: it's possible he made the change because that was how various ships he'd served on worked, and he wanted to try something similar with Enterprise.

    --Sran
     
  13. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Sisko and Kira switched to it in DS9, citing shorter shifts would keep everyone more well rested. That might be optimal in a potential combat situation, and could be Jellico's reasoning.
     
  14. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Interesting...it means each section needs 25% more people actually qualified for the position. Also, wouldn't there be sections more important than others?...and NOT something that can be done at the drop of a hat?*

    *I mean, it *can* be done, but we never saw if they did it and then ****ed themselves in an emergency.

    EX:

    Geordi: "Bridge we have a coolant leak...standby..."
    Jelico: "Engineering?...Geordi....GEORDI!............."

    Geordi: "Standby....(yelling in background)...standby...okay...okay. We got it under control bridge."

    Jellico: "WTF is going on down there??
    Geordi: "WTF is going on Captain is you have 5% of my team on guard duty, 10% eating in 10 Forward and 5% asleep! Right now half my team are having to run two stations through the same station and tab back and forth!"
     
  15. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Her and Wesley looked so much better. Kira too.
     
  16. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    Not necessarily. You're assuming that each duty shift has an entirely different group of officers. There's no evidence to suggest that's the case. If a particular area of the ship needs five people to run it, who's to say a crew member can't be part of more than one shift?

    --Sran
     
  17. sariel2005

    sariel2005 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    If Jellico wants a four shift rotation he has every right to it, even if it is unusual. The crew don't have the right to ignore the order.
    Jellico has his reasons, and they are probably sound given his command experience. No one condemns Commander Adama on BSG for refusing to network computers despite it being considered at least as idiosyncratic.

    Its worth noting that Jellico is preparing for a very specific mission, one that he actually expects to fail hence the lack of confidence Troi detects - it alway struck me as odd that we are supposed to see this revelation as putting the man in a bad light given the circumstances. Along similar lines as he says, given the mission they are on he has no time to be touchy feely in his change over. He expects he is going to have to take Enterprise into combat and wants to be prepared.
    While his command style would be different to Picard there is nothing to indicate that Jellico would be so hardnosed if the situation were less critical.
     
  18. Mojochi

    Mojochi Commodore Commodore

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    Really? That's the only thing you can conclude? kind of a weak deduction, given all the possible variables & lack of information.

    Picard didn't write the book on commanding a starship, nor is this one command of his indicative of all command conditions. That Jellico makes them do something Picard didn't make them do is not a reason to suggest he's wrong or a poor captain

    And I still maintain that it's a better line of reasoning to suggest that since no deleterious effects of Jellico's orders were ever brought to light, then his orders didn't effect things as negatively as the complaints made it appear they would.

    Things may have sucked compared to the good old Picard days, but the potential "Significant" problems Riker complained about were apparently not significant enough to be worth mentioning, once the changes were in place, & no ill effects befell the mission
     
  19. Tiberius

    Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    Excuse me, but Riker claims that Picard wrote the book on the Enterprise, in the Best of Both Worlds.
     
  20. sariel2005

    sariel2005 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    While worrying that since Picards knowledge was part of the Borg he needed to think of things that Picard would not know. Maybe he should have switched to a four shift rotation...... :devil: