So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by Dale Sams, Apr 27, 2013.

  1. USS Firefly

    USS Firefly Captain Captain

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    Well Picard still lives after he called Worf a coward. :)
     
  2. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Picard did know about it, he referred to Riker being relieved of duty during the Minos Korva incident in Gambit when he was painting Riker as a deadbeat(not a hard task).
     
  3. Makarov

    Makarov Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Picard saw how hard Jellico was to get along with first hand, and he also saw Jellico's negative reaction to Riker, but he defended him. In that one episode the master strategist says Riker is too "jovial" in command and Picard responds that he's a fool to question Riker's abilities. I'm guessing Picard doesn't like Jellico much either.

    I'm surprised at the idea that Riker should have volunteered without being asked. All his previous recommendations to Jellico got him nowhere.
     
  4. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    If Picard's life (not to mention preventing a war and his Starfleet oath) were really that important to him, he should've been first in line to volunteer to fly the mission. Making Jellico come to him and ask made Riker look like a selfish dick.

    For me, Chain of Command was the final nail in the coffin for the character.
     
  5. Mojochi

    Mojochi Commodore Commodore

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    Agreed. The mission was a success, a mission Jellico had initially thought was doomed. Riker even came through on fulfilling a tough part of it. All's well that ends well, & leave well enough alone. What's to gain in dirtying up the guy's record? Just a lot of trouble for nothing.

    I give credit to Geordi too. He was irritated at first, & honestly, were I in his position, I'd probably be too. He kept it under wraps though. After all, He's maybe the best engineer in the fleet. Probably loaded with commendations. That the new captain thinks things aren't up to snuff is not easy to swallow. That he downsized his department & then heaped a workload onto them, because of the crisis, only adds to the aggravation

    But by the time they're headlong into the mission, he is coming through like we expect our Geordi to come through. He's delivering the "Geordi goods" & he's relating to the guy much better & visa versa

    That's how Geordi is. There's been a number of times he's butt heads with somebody, Leah Brahms, Scotty, even that Romulan, Centurian Bochra in The Enemy, just to mention a few. He always finds a way to work through it. That's why I like Geordi. He's the guy we should all aspire to be.

    Troi said her piece & then kept out of the way. Worf had no problem, & neither did Data. Really, the only issues were Riker being out of control, Geordi needing to find his bearings, & Beverly having to zip it in one briefing. That's a pretty good track record for everybody involved, under the circumstances, except Riker
     
  6. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    Once Riker was out of the way, the crew stepped up and did what they were told and worked as professionals. They may not have liked it, but they keep it to themselves or in private conversations, on the clock they focused on the job.

    Makes me wonder if Riker was more the problem than Jellico. More or less keeping the crew pissed off at the Captain by putting his personal opinion into the mix and being to friendly with the crew.
     
  7. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    I've been arguing about this episode for twenty years now and I've yet to see anyone put forward a good reason for Riker acting the way he did. :techman:
     
  8. Mojochi

    Mojochi Commodore Commodore

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    Me too:guffaw:You gotta give respect to an episode that can keep people debating for years on end. That's the mark of quality
     
  9. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    That would seem simple: Jealous, mad that he got passed over for Jellico. He viewed Enterprise as "his ship" and figured that Jellico had not right to be in charge just because Starfleet put him there.
     
  10. Mojochi

    Mojochi Commodore Commodore

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    ^ Those are all bad reasons. lol
     
  11. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    Riker's insubordination was crazy, it's the reason why I can't grade this two parter highly. It was like his first day on duty.:wtf:
     
  12. Mojochi

    Mojochi Commodore Commodore

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    I guess I can sort of see why someone might feel that way, but personally, I don't see it falling completely out of the realm of possibility for him. He's always been something of an egotistical, pompous windbag, & once he gets his mind set, he's often quite stubborn. A slip up like this might be possible if he let it get away from him, which he clearly did
     
  13. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Basically just cements Riker's behavior of being a jerk to everyone outside the command clique that he'd not actively trying to seduce.
     
  14. Mojochi

    Mojochi Commodore Commodore

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    If there is anything to say it's out of character for him, it's certainly not as out of character as "Movie Action Hero Picard" was relative to conservative tv series Picard
     
  15. sariel2005

    sariel2005 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Its not that out of character for Riker, he has a habit of sulking when things don't go his way. Look at his reaction to Troi's potential marriage or his treatment of Shelby and of Ro, and in the Outcast he ignore the prime directive and goes on an unofficial rescue mission.
    If you watch Frakes performance he has a habit of looking irritated with people very quickly, often with very little reason.

    As to the insubordination, once the mission was over I suspect that Jellico was happy to let the matter drop. notice that Riker is in uniform on the bridge when Picard resumes command which Jellico did not have to allow ( In fact given that Picard presumably needed a couple of days to recover from his ordeal and that Data is at Ops he may even have reinstated Riker as first officer).
     
  16. Jonas Grumby

    Jonas Grumby Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I was just wondering how a jerk like Riker ever made it into what is supposedly the most sought after first officer position in the fleet, and I think you may have just given me the answer. Riker knows how to kiss up to the right people!

    There were scenes in TNG (especially in the early seasons) where Riker was so far up Picard's fundament that all you could see were the soles of his feet.* Maybe he did the same with Captain DeSoto and others. :D

    *Line stolen from John Gielgud in a movie the name of which escapes me at the moment.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2013
  17. Mojochi

    Mojochi Commodore Commodore

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    ^I'm sure there's truth to what Pressman said too, about him "Making" Riker's career. Obviously he regrets the Pegasus, but I bet Pressman was thrilled to give a weighty reference to further Riker's career. It wouldn't surprise me if Pressman was among those "Glowing Recommendations" that Picard mentions being in Riker's record when he got the ENT-D posting.

    I'm sure Riker knew exactly how to get mileage out of his high ranking connections. It sounds as if he warped right into the XO gig on the Hood very soon after his promotion to LT. Cmdr. following the Potemkin's Nervala IV mission

    He went from Ensign to Commander in like 6 or 7 years, & they'd already offered him command of the Drake when he joined Enterprise. He feasibly could have gone from ensign to captain in less than a decade. There is no doubt he was a "shining star", & saving the Pegasus captain had to have played a role in that

    (Then he spent 15 years widening his ass)
     
  18. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    When he actively condemned Lavelle as a brownnose when the ensign tried sucking up to him a bit just so he'd stop being so much of an ass. Hypocrite. ;)
     
  19. Mojochi

    Mojochi Commodore Commodore

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    ^Oh, god yes. He took up poker to hobnob with the Potemkin senior staff, for god sake. Lavelle just wanted to chat over a drink in 10-Foward, so the guy would stop being a dick to him

    That episode taught me one thing for sure. I'd take Worf as my friend over Riker any day of the week & twice on sundays
     
  20. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It is interesting how the Riker character evolved, or perhaps more accurately, devolved. He was originally billed as the Kirk-style action hero, with Picard as the more remote figure head captain. Riker had a spotless resume and the strength of character to play the role that Picard wanted: tough when Picard needed someone to be his hatchet man and someone to soften the edges in his dealings with children. Riker peaked in BoBW, but after that, for the writers where could they take him? They had to start coming up with excuses for his reluctance to take the center seat, with Chain of Command making him look like an immature crybaby and Pegasus making him look like a self-serving opportunist.
    Really, it would have been more interesting if Picard had chosen him as XO knowing full well about all of the baggage and believing in him despite the Pegasus baggage. A career arc that went from having one foot en route to an irrelevant backwater or small-ship posting and one foot on a banana peel to have Picard giving him a chance at rescuing his career, despite doubts and opposition from HQ might have been a more interesting career arc than the one we saw.