So I'm Watching "Chains of Command"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by Dale Sams, Apr 27, 2013.

  1. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    1) I only *this second* realized the double-meaning of 'chains of command'. I'm not too bright in word association unless I apply myself. S**t, I thought Borg was just a cool name for about 10 years.

    2) (referring to Picard not having the rights of a POW) "Then he will be treated like a terrorist." More prescience on the part of TNG. I wonder if a Trek series would have the rocks to make that or "The Drumhead" these days.

    3) The big one. So I was willing to give the benefit of the doubt to you 'Jellico apologists'. (I make it sound so bad don't I?) In fact my own memory said that Will more or less deserved being relieved. But having just watched it....Jellico was just looking for an excuse. Some people just can't get along and Jellico used Will's outburst as an excuse to dump him for the much more preferable Data.*

    Also, was Jellico really expecting the entirety of Engineering to work a 48 hour shift? I guess stims have come a long way.

    *All IMHO. I don't hate Jellico at all, and as others have said, he's refreshing.
     
  2. Captain McBain

    Captain McBain Captain Captain

    I don't hate Jellico, either, but he could've been a tad more 'human.' I wonder if he acted that way all the time or only specifically during critical missions. I also think that Jellico would've loved a shipful of Datas!
     
  3. Pondwater

    Pondwater Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't think he was meant to be a Captain (even if it was temporary) of the Federation Flagship. Riker had it spot on when he told Jellico off.

    Although, I think differently if it were a combat situation.
     
  4. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Hell, I *want* Jellico to be right in that conversation because it's the more interesting choice, but Riker is 'more' right.
     
  5. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    Jellico was a dick.

    But, he was a dick who was also in command of the Enterprise.

    Jellico was right, and Riker was not. Yes, Riker dressed him down off the record quite well. But he was still wrong for not following orders and implementing Jellico's directives.
     
  6. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I posted this on another thread, but this one's relevant so I'll put it here too:

    I always thought Jellico wasn't that bad of a guy. Every time he was introduced to someone in that episode he was cordial to them for example. His command style definitely was "his way or the highway" and he was a micro manager. That's not bad, it's just different. Especially when everyone's been serving under Picard who basically gives his people all the leeway in the world so long as the job gets done.

    Jellico to me seemed to put the mission before the people. Which is a very military attitude. To him they were facing the prospect of war if things went wrong. Jellico said as much to Picard and Troi. It wasn't that he didn't care about the people under his command, but he couldn't baby them at the expense of the mission. To Riker, Jellico was willing to sacrifice Picard to further the mission. He wasn't wrong. To Jellico, Picard is a small thing compared to the prospect of preventing a war, which was his mission.

    Riker was insubordinate to Jellico and was increasingly so as things progressed. Jellico felt that was a danger to the mission having someone he couldn't rely upon in a critical position. So yes, when Riker crossed the line, he's relieved and Data's in the red shirt. Frankly Riker wasn't very professional in the episode at all. To me the scene between Geordi and Jellico in the shuttle was very telling. Not only did it demonstrate Jellico did attempt to bond with his people when given the chance, but that he'll put the mission ahead of personal concerns.

    He did drop his pride when he asked Riker to pilot the mission. Why? His pride is a small thing to the success of the mission. I think he "dropped the ranks" and ripped into Riker, just to give Riker the chance to get all the nasty things he wanted to say to Jellico off his chest, so he'd perform the mission all the better. To say nothing about once the mission was a success and Jellico had the upper hand, he immediately demanded Picard's return. So you really can't say he didn't care about the people under his command, even if he didn't have time to pamper them so to say.

    I suppose I ranted a bit on this, but he is one of my favorite characters and really did shake things up nicely on the TNG set. To me, Jellico was the professional, get the mission done, no matter the cost type of man. Just the sort of person you'd want on a high stakes mission where the threat of war is imminent. His style was different, and admittedly overbearing, but that doesn't mean it was wrong.
     
  7. Admiral James Kirk

    Admiral James Kirk Writer Admiral

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    :techman:
     
  8. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    My position is, basically, when you've confused your empath and she's walking on eggshells around you...you've done something wrong. Riker is dead right that he's got the entire crew wound up. They probably started faking reports and running around like the crew of the Caine when the Captain saw someone with his shirt untucked.

    You know the next person to go would have been Crusher...

    "You want to explain to me why the entirety of Engineering is in here asking for stims?"

    "Doctor, you're relieved."

    "You going to make Data Chief Medical Officer in addition to XO? Good luck with that."
     
  9. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    [​IMG]

    Crusher's replacement. ;)
     
  10. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    We need a bowing "I'm not worthy" emoticon.

    edit: Also, am I the only one who cringes every time a female massages a Ferengi's lobes to get her way? Great plan Picard. If it were a Klingon, would Crusher have to give him a hand job under the table?
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
  11. mswood

    mswood Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The thing is , first I loved Jellico, and in situations like the Federation, over time Jellico would have been able to reassign crew members to get the type of crew that fit his command style.

    Picard was able to pick his primary officers, and after that those department heads would have say in getting or getting rid of people that worked with them.

    You certainly don't want to be on board a ship that Captain and department heads are working against each other.
    Riker's was right about that. But here the thing, he doesn't have to. Unless he is violating rules, his crew is supposed to follow his ways, even if they don't personally agree with them.
     
  12. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    I felt that Jellico was sort of a control freak who wanted to be surrounded by yes men validating his decisions. He didn't seem receptive to suggestions after having made up his mind how to proceed. It may have just been due to the urgency of this particular mission, else it's doubtful he could have gotten to where he was in Starfleet.
     
  13. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That whole, "I don't have time to hold people's hands." And "Now I know why he never got his own command"* when he actually just can't read your mind and you've got him afraid to talk to you. It just reeks of Captain Queeg's inability to take blame for anything.

    *"He's been decorated by Starfleet five times" Hint hint. Helped save the Alpha Quadrant twice? Might have heard of that? Hello?

    This is one of the few times I blame the writers. I know what they wanted to do. It would have just taken a little tweaking here and there. I definitely would have taken out Riker's smug, "You're welcome."

    And also, Riker has "Heard Jellico has been talking to shuttle pilots all over the ship?" Did ya hear you might be going to war??? Galloway and Bailey both requested to return to duty...but you're going to sit in your room until the Captain begs you for help? Jerk.
     
  14. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Jellico = A non-alcoholic Col Tigh?

    To me Jellico seemed like a man commanding a military vessel. Big mistake, in Star Trek.
     
  15. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well Riker's always been a jerk and hostile to anyone outside the command clique, unless he's hitting on them, pretty much. Remmick, Ro, Lavelle, Barclay and so forth. Jellico's only the latest on that list, but Riker can't pull rank on him.

    Even so, they really made Riker childish and unprofessional in this episode. He's more worried about his private pissing contest with Jellico than preventing war? Again, that's why I think Jellico dropped the ranks and tore into Riker before he asked him to pilot the mission. Riker wasn't going to be functional on any level until he got what he needed to off his chest.

    I personally think the writers did do him a disservice on this episode, but it's so awesome elsewhere it's easy to forgive that. The primary purpose of a first officer is to carry out and enact the captain's orders. I think you made a good point about Riker volunteering... that would've made up for his childish behavior earlier to be certain.

    Jellico was more military like than Picard to be certain. Considering the scenario, it makes sense Necheyev would want someone like that commanding. Whatever you want to say about his command style, he did out maneuver the Cardassians almost single handed and did accomplish the mission. Considering Necheyev's own command style, she probably likes having a man like Jellico in the field.
     
  16. t_smitts

    t_smitts Captain Captain

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    Agree 110% It wasn't Jellico's job to come in and be everyone's friend. (Heck, even Picard was a bit standoffish in "Farpoint", acknowledging in a later episode that he'd been a bit "miserly" in congratulating Riker on his new assignment).

    He had a different way of doing things than Picard, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. This guy didn't become a captain by being a jerk or an idiot. He quite rightly expected that officers assigned to a Galaxy class ship would be the best Starfleet had to offer and held them to a high standard accordingly.

    And as Star pointed out, he was willing to check his ego at the door and ask Riker for help when he needed to.

    BTW, to the OP, it's CHAIN of Command, not "chains".
     
  17. Zippo and Flask

    Zippo and Flask Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Those are all excellent points and I think provide a thoughtful assessment of the Jellico character.

    I think you can summarize the command styles of these two men by their own "catch phrases".

    Jellico: "Get it done."
    Picard: "Make it so."
     
  18. Mysterion

    Mysterion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Jellico was correct in his actions. With the exception of Data, the regular crew acted unprofessionally and childishly. Especially Riker. How he eventually got command of his own ship after having turned-down multiple previous opportunities AND acting the way he did in the episode is beyond me. If this is the way Starfleet is being run, they deserve to get their asses handed to them by the Cardassians, Borg, or whomever else goes for it.
     
  19. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Jellico was simply right.

    He was preparing the Enterprise to go to war and didn't have time to hold anyone's hand. The crew were suppose to be professionals yet they came off as unable to show any type of flexibility. Much what many people blame Jellico for.
     
  20. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    ^ This. There was a time crunch on. Plus while he was trying to talk the Cardies down, he was lieing to their faces about a covert op in their backyard. If things went south, the Enterprise was cooked and a shooting war was on. So, yeah, he sort had to be Captain Bastard cause he was juggle so many balls at once and if he or the crew dropped one, there was going to be thousands dead.