So did Worf's Change of Heart cost him command of the Enterprise?

Discussion in 'Deep Space Nine' started by Photon, Jul 17, 2013.

  1. Photon

    Photon Commodore Commodore

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    Data-"dead"
    B/4-um...
    Riker to Titan

    Worf seems the most logical candidate when Picard is kicked upstairs.


    Does Worf deserve it? Yes
    Will he get it? We may never know
     
  2. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    IIRC wasn't there a moment on DS9 where Worf is said to have, basically, screwed up any chance of going further up the promotion ladder? A blot on his record that will foreverafter be held against him?

    So that leaves... Geordi. We see him commanding a ship in the VOY: "Timeless" alt-future, so the possibility is always there. Or maybe Dr Bev, who we also saw in command-level positions on TNG, both in "Descent" and the anti-future "All Good Things".
     
  3. marksound

    marksound Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm sure there was a short list of candidates for the Enterprise, probably commanding other ships. Worf might get a command, but not the E. Not the first time out.
     
  4. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    ^Sisko said Worf probably wouldn't be offered a command after "Change of Heart." That doesn't mean it was impossible.

    In any case, Crusher was a physician and would not have been offered command of a starship. Doctors could command medical ships, but nothing more than that. LaForge would certainly have been a possibility. OTOH, there's no reason to believe Starfleet would ever reassign Picard, nor is it out of the realm of possibility that Starfleet would have offered the ship to an outside captain after Picard retired.

    --Sran
     
  5. Photon

    Photon Commodore Commodore

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    Exactly. In the long run, I think Worf had a shot at the E-F? Still, I think they'd offer Rikar the command first. Perhaps Worf to the Titan.
    The fact still remains, Worf learned from Picard and Sisko how to command a ship and crew.
     
  6. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Who's to say he has to stick with Starfleet? Maybe Martok gives him command of his own Bird of Prey!
     
  7. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    Excepting Change of Heart, Worf was placed in the command track on DS9. Whether he would get the Enterprise would have depended more on his abilities to deal with a ship with a broad mission. Obviously he could do the diplomatic and defense aspects. It's less clear that he could do the scientific and humanitarian missions as well. He's one turn as head of operations on 1701-D was not inspiring. Indeed, it seemed that the Defiant was more natural for him than the Enterprise. YMMV
     
  8. Roboturner913

    Roboturner913 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I always connected Change of Heart and Rules of Engagement as the major black marks on Worf. They show that he has a problem separating his emotions when they come to command decisions.

    Probably would've been that Madden guy. Or the "new" Data.
     
  9. SchwEnt

    SchwEnt Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It seems a bit arbitrary. We've seen most all ST captains screw up in ways that should prevent them from ever having command again. Picard lost the Stargazer, Riker lost the Enterprise to an outdated Klingon ship, all the captains have violated direct orders for a dramatic plot point. But they all end up back in the captain's chair anyway.

    Yet somehow Worf's Change of Heart or other mistakes are the ones that will cost his career? What about Picard's Insurrection? Kirk's stealing the Enterprise? They all took actions that should cost them, but only Worf will suffer the lasting consequences?
     
  10. Mage

    Mage Commodore Commodore

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    In the novels, Worf has been offered his first command, but refused. First, because he feels comfortable aboard the E as it's first officer, and second, he still feels that he doesn't deserve to be a captain. People around him have been trying to tell him that he has changed since the events from Change of Heart, one of them being Picard himself.

    So yeah, we'll see what happens I suppose.
     
  11. BennyRussel

    BennyRussel Commander Red Shirt

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    Right around the corner. Just across the track.
    Assuming Worf left his Ambassador's position and returned to Starfleet, I think he would have gotten a command that fell under Admiral Ross. Bill had gotten many chances to work indirectly with Worf through Martok and Sisko and would be the logical Admiral to look past Worf's "official" record and give him a chance. Worf would have some powerful advocates as well: Martok, Picard, Kira and Riker would all have influence if they spoke up for him.

    Also, remember Starfleet was depleted during the Dominion War. That's part of the reason why Nog got promoted twice so early in his career. The fleet would be getting rebuilt and experienced senior officers would be needed. I think Worf would definitely get a ship of his own.

    As for the Enterprise E, I would bet on Captain Shelby. She had seniority over Riker, since she jumped past him in rank and got her own ship before he did. And she worked with the Enterprise crew to help save Picard's life and beat back one of the Borg attacks.
     
  12. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Anything is possible, he could do something later in his career that counter-balanced his mistakes.
     
  13. SchwEnt

    SchwEnt Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'll toss out an idea that Worf may not want the Enterprise (or any ship) to command.

    After being Strategic Operations Officer and an Ambassador, Worf may be in line for a command position without necessarily being a ship captain. There are other command postings that may be more suitable for Worf, perhaps a station or outpost commander or Star Fleet Marine General or fleet sector commander, lots of stuff. Having a command position isn't synonymous with being a ship's captain. Maybe that's more Worf's thing.
     
  14. FFunctionalData

    FFunctionalData Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I do not understand why Worf got a mark on his record. Sisko or whoever should have known better then to pair up a husband and wife on a mission that dangerous. Who would not have made the same decision Worf made.
     
  15. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    He disobeyed orders and allowed an operative willing to aid the Federation to be killed by Dominion troops. It's not Sisko's fault that he made that choice, nor is the captain to blame because Worf and Dax chose to pursue a relationship. Regardless of what choice Sisko may have made in his place, that doesn't change the the fact that his actions compromised an important mission. And for the record, it was Kira who actually issued their mission orders. Sisko wasn't even aboard the station until the end of the episode.

    --Sran
     
  16. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    Revisionist history. You're forgetting that Kirk did face the consequences of his actions. He was demoted to captain. That the move was something he secretly wanted had nothing to do with the decision to boot him from the admiralty. And had Kirk and company not saved Earth from the cetacean probe, it's likely they'd have been thrown out of Starfleet altogether, possibly imprisoned. The charges against the former Enterprise crew were dropped only because their actions were associated with the rescue of Spock and the eventual saving of Earth.

    As for Picard, he wasn't punished because he did nothing wrong. Admiral Dougherty threatened him with court martial, but that was before Picard learned of the common ancestory between the Son'a and the Ba'ku and Dougherty's attempts to force-relocate the Ba'ku at the behest of the Son'a. Riker and LaForge were able to contact Starfleet and explain the situation, so whatever charges may have been filed against Picard were eventually dropped. No crime, no punishment.

    Also keep in mind that both Kirk and Picard were involved in these situations after each had made captain (or better). Worf was a lieutenant commander at the time of "Change of Heart," and although he'd served as captain of the Defiant in Sisko's absence, that's not the same thing as having the responsibility full time.

    --Sran
     
  17. marksound

    marksound Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Unless your last name is Kirk you don't get the Enterprise right out of the gate. You have to pay your dues with "lesser" commands first. Riker found that out the hard way. :lol:
     
  18. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    Well, technically both Decker and Spock got the Enterprise as their first commands. But Kirk recommended Decker to replace him, and we don't know how Spock ended up as captain aside from his commanding the vessel while it was assigned to the Academy.

    --Sran
     
  19. marksound

    marksound Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Technically, Decker never left the gate. I don't remember if Spock ever took the cadet crew on a training cruise, but when Kirk came aboard Spock insisted on relinquishing command. "First best destiny" or something. ;)
     
  20. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    The Enterprise short-story anthology clearly depicts Spock in command of Enterprise in 2282, about two years before TWOK. Not cannon, of course, but plausible.

    Christopher's novel Ex Machina similarly establishes that Decker really was captain of the Enterprise during its refit, as he hand-picked nearly the entire crew. The lot was the most diverse compliment of officers to ever serve on a Federation ship.

    --Sran