Slipstream to Andromeda

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Dougelo7, May 14, 2012.

  1. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yup. On the money Relayer.

    The Entropy effect was published in 1981, which means that given how long it takes to propose/pitch, write, edit, publish, market and ship a novel, there's more than a possibility that Vonda was still writing the bugger as the Motionless Picture came out in '79.

    It's a margin call.
     
  2. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Even in canon, Slipstream works (well, for SF it works partially).
    Remember that on TV we saw 2 different version of the Slipstream drive.

    Version 1 of slipstream: Arturis' Dauntless ship had a speed of 300 Ly's per hour - which of course doesn't mesh with the faked SF message which stated that it would take 3 months at Slipstream for the crew to get back to the AQ (at 300 ly's per hour it would take the ship about 8 and a half days to reach the AQ).
    Then again, the 300 ly's per hour might be what the 'maximum' speed of Arturis ship was capable of which couldn't be sustained in the long run - hence a slower speed might be required for a sustained 3 month trip (again, Voyager could have made periodic 300 ly's jumps - say once or twice per week - but of course we know this would speed up their return to the AQ greatly).

    Version 2 of the Slipstream: Timeless
    Roughly 10 000 ly's per minute. Why? 17 seconds into the flight the phase variance kicks in and the crew has a short window of opportunity to fix it.
    Roughly under 1 minute is an equivalent of what Voyager spent inside the Slipstream before Kim sent his phase corrections that dispersed the Slipstream.

    In the novels, the Slipstream drive is based on the Benemite crystals (or Version 2 from TV that the crew of Voyager made) - remember that the V1 didn't need those crystals.
    Anyway... the novel version of Slipstream would require roughly 200 minutes to reach Andromeda (or 3 hours and 20 mins) if it was based on the V2 from TV - not 2 months.

    Either way, Slipstream does work - SF needs to work on it though to compensate for the phase variance in the Benemite crystal version of the drive, or they need to work on maintaining structural integrity during the V1 which requires relatively 'simple' Warp Core modifications.

    Heck... fixing structural integrity would seem to be the 'simplest' way of using Slipstream - or create a separate system that is meant to auto-repair/maintain hull integrity.
    SF is supposed to have automated over 90% of the needed tasks anyway (at least per early TNG - some of the Voyager novels touch on this as well) so the crew would need to input minimal work for the repairs - alas, on TV we were shown the crew working around the clock on repairs - because the writers conveniently forgot about 'mechanization'.
    Morons.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2012
  3. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    it only works if they know how to make it work and they don't.

    Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

    You could say that voyager could use transwarp coils if they could figure out how to use transwarp files without the ship ripping in two.

    Maybe it was less than precise of me to say that Slipstream never worked, more so than that in Think Tank Janeway said that SHE could never get it to work.

    Are you calling Kathryn a liar?
     
  4. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Actually no...
    TW is a different 'beast' altogether because the 'Threshold' episode was conveniently 'forgotten' by the crew (which was shown in the episode when 7 tried to help in engineering by opening a TW conduit - when tachion particles leaked into the propulsion system - Torres clearly stated 'we don't know anything about TW technology, playing around with it could be dangerous').

    To that end, Voyager effectively had 0 knowledge on how to do Transwarp and the only exposure to the technology in question they had was the Borg method of using coils (which apparently wear out if used single handed after 15000 ly's without assistance from more).
    Actually they also had exposure to the technology/knowledge when they met the Voth - they knew that they used TW as a method of propulsion - but beyond that... nothing concrete.

    Slipstream on the show DOES work for SF partly - meaning, there are some 'problems' but the technology gives ships that use it sustainable high speeds for a short amount of time.
    If you can operate within those limitations, you will severely cut down on the travel time in case of emergencies for example (an equivalent to Enterprise-D Warp engines being unable to sustain warp 9.6 for long periods of time before having to slow down and repair - it can be done periodically though and most of the time, just use regular Warp speeds).
     
  5. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You just said that the only reason hat they couldn't get transwarp to work is that they didn't know how to get transwarp to work, which is exactly what I said. It doesn't matter that they were extremely ignorant about transwarp and only a little ignorant about slipstream.

    Besides if in the middle Janeway didn't remember Barclay, then it's possible that a lot of seaon two didn't happen the way we saw it becuase we were following the wrong/a different timeline/timestream now.
     
  6. Dougelo7

    Dougelo7 Cadet Newbie

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    I remember reading that "transwarp" was a blanket term used to cover all speeds above warp 9.9999999999... until "quantum slipstream" was coined.

    In "Theshold," Tom Paris was just traveling at infinite velocity. He wasn't using a transwarp conduit like the Borg, so it wasn't the same kind of travel. Confusing, yes, but clarifying.

    Also, I think the novelized version of slipstream is faster than V1 but slower than V2 because V1, like you said, didn't use an optimized system. And V2 was so fast because it was unstable, like a vessel's maximum warp. SF's slipstream enhancements probably involved finding a balance between speed and sustainability, which ended up being 2,000 LYph.

    So the only obstacles to a two-month intergalactic journey would be fried gel packs, compromised structural integrity, and the galactic barrier. I can see SF overcoming the first two, but I don't know about the third. Thoughts?
     
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    All they need is a Medusan navigator and they're sweet.

    After that position is staffed, then all they need to do is somehow to stop Kim from falling in love with her.
     
  8. Mage

    Mage Commodore Commodore

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    Hell, the Beyer-novels did something the show itself never did, and that was to make Voyager interesting. So in my book, Beyer rules. And if she made QSD work, it works.

    Bring on the rest of the universe people!!!
     
  9. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    actually I believe David Mack made it work.
     
  10. Mage

    Mage Commodore Commodore

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    Well yeah, but only for one short experimental jump. ;) And Kirsten made if both fail (with the crystals going belly-up) and working again (with B'Elanna's solution).

    IMO, TrekLit in general has been doing a really great job of making Star Trek as a whole interesting again.
     
  11. Ezri D

    Ezri D Lieutenant

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    Slipstream would be interesting with a 24th century federation going to the Andromeda Galaxy or others. There is a old saying, "you cannot put the band back together again." The idea to have Voyager and her crew all going back into space is a non-starter.
     
  12. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Moderator

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    The web series Star Trek: Odyssey portrays a starship with a (temporarily) working slipstream drive exploring Andromeda.

    Slipstream works in that case due to Omega particle research, as established in its parent show, Star Trek: Hidden Frontier.
     
  13. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    A pretty good non-starter, considering Beyer's now on her 4th Voyager novel.
     
  14. Ezri D

    Ezri D Lieutenant

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    How can you really have a post return to Earth Voyager anything? The reason they came back to Earth was because they wanted to see and do other stuff other then being with each other 24/7. When the navy comes back from sea, the crew do not say to each other. Screw it, we are sick of being back home. Lets go above Alaska and never come back.
     
  15. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Moderator

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    Which they did for a while. But after the massive Borg attack which decimated the Federation was ended, it became necessary to verify that they were gone for good. A slipstream-equipped Voyager was the logical choice to lead a fleet back to the Delta Quadrant to find out.

    Not with exactly the same crew, nor even the same captain. But with most of the major players involved one way or another.
     
  16. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^^^
    And it's also not like the first time the Voyager was in the Delta Quadrant. The circumstances are many times better now. She's spearheading a fleet of fellow Federation starships there with a means to return home fairly quickly, if necessary.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2012
  17. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I don't understand how the federation has the resources to colonise, well, has the great expectations to boldy go forth and mark out virgin territory with such zeal, on so vast a scale when in truth after the trillions dead in the Dominion war and the trillions dead in some novelised borg invasion, even the maxim "expand or die", should cover that expansion for the next ten to 20 years should be the federation just recovering old ground by getting a whip behind the breeders with tax exemptions and other enthusiasms to urge common folk to generate the largest imaginable families.

    Unless there's a fire sale on the devastated worlds?

    It could be easier to start over else where fresh than rebuild?

    So they got all these worlds where no one wants to live because most of their families still in parts on the surface, or there was some awesomely hideous ecoweapon that's...

    Honestly, if people don't or can't live on these places, that means it's time to strip mine the shit out of them, which in a morally objective tally book might come out as a win for the federation despite the gross loss of sentient life.
     
  18. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    When the Federation is a mere three weeks away at QS speed, and there are 6 ships backing you up.... Voyager going back to the DQ suddeny sounds a lot less outrageous.
     
  19. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You know until, the Hirogen take out one of those ships, adapt the technology and invade the federation.

    Or the Voth notice the new massing human pestilence running afoul of their canon and dogma.

    Can you imagine what god would do to an LDS doorknocker leaning on the buzzer to the pearly gates?
     
  20. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Except that in the case of Hirogen, their technology is a bit less likely to advance so much in a short period of time seeing how they are cut off from one another and one of those ships accompanying Voyager would probably be a match for a few of theirs (Voyager itself was able to take out 2 heavy Hirogen ships by season 7 after all those modifications whereas the ships phasers were ineffective beforehand).

    As for the Voth... yeah, those are a bit of a challenge, but question remains whether things would remain constant for them too.
    The Borg were seen with some assimilated Voth, so its entirely possible the latter suffered some losses which could be attributed to deaths of some leaders who were enforcing their old-standing doctrine, and with them out of the way...
     

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