Slightly pathetic that theres never been LGBT characters in ST

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by junkdata, Jul 11, 2014.

  1. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It is more than slightly pathetic Trek has never shown an LGBT character. In the 60s such a thing would've been a step too far, even in the 80s when TNG started, I doubt many in power would've been willing to show a gay character on screen. But by the time of DS9 there should've been some movement made towards it (the Dax/Kahn kiss doesn't count as that was a romance bewteen the Symbionts, not the hosts). There definitely should've been representation in VOY and its pretty much unforgivable when ENT came along. Whilst NuTrek should hang its head in shame for not finally admitting the true relationshipn between Kirk and Spock! :)

    When we get a new Trek series, there should be a gay male captain, a bisexual female first officer, a gay female ops manager, a transgender security chief, a bisexual male doctor, and a gender-neutral engineer, in order to finally right the wrong--with heterosexuals in place as science officer, counsellor and conn officer. Ok, maybe a slight exaggeration, but they would have to make sure that their gay character was done properly and not just given a lip service--with more to who they are and what drives them other than their orientation.
     
  2. JesterFace

    JesterFace Commander Red Shirt

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    Star Trek has done a lot, but don't blame it for not doing everything first.
     
  3. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I would agree that TOS, given the time period, would get a pass, however during TNG, especially later TNG, there should have been "the big step" of including LGBT characters occasionally.

    If they couldn't figure out how to do it right, then go ahead and do it wrong.

    :)
     
  4. junkdata

    junkdata Lieutenant Commander

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    They could honestly have a token character and it would still work. They could have an alien race in one episode and it could still work. Theres no need to really have some captain who is gay, but frankly that would be a really bold move if they did.

    Tokenism gets criticism, but when the sum of desired progress is establishing homosexuality in the mainstream as a healthy and natural lifestyle, as it is in real life, then tokenism works in this case. A science officer "who happens to be gay" or a planet that happens to have different gender distinctions... it really dont matter, because its just establishing the normal.
     
  5. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It was the network and the sponsors ( the people who fronted a good portion of money to get your series made) who pushed for minority characters in Star Trek and other shows. The Cage was pretty white in terms of the cast. Even Jose Tyler, a Brazilian in the outline, was played by a non Hispanic. If you bother to look at Star Trek's Sixties contemporaries you'll see an up tick in the number of non whites in supporting and leading roles. Star Trek was not alone in this and GR was not a lone voice in the wilderness.

    Star Trek isn't just TOS. The franchise was on movie and TV screens for three decades after TOS. In those decades LGBT representation in the media has increased, but not on Star Trek.
     
  6. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    Thing is, there isn't much that it did "first".
     
  7. junkdata

    junkdata Lieutenant Commander

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    I wonder if Kirk had kissed Takei instead of Uhura, what would the fall out have been?

    Gay klingons? do they exist?

    I think when we are living in a world, where even DADT is a thing of the past, we need to acknowledge uniform = some gay people. Unless we are living in a future where homosexuality has been eradicated (something of a total anathema to other trek values), then lack of homosexuality is a sin of omission. Family show or not. This is less a case of "family show" dont push liberal agenda at people, and more a case of fair representation when you have that many characters.

    It should almost be legally mandated that gays are in space on shows like ST.
     
  8. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Obviously, "pain sticks" is just a euphemism.
     
  9. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    What could possibly lead you to the misconception that such a finely written character would be a token? As oppose to a simply recognition of the normal ditribution of sexualities within Human society?

    :)
     
  10. JesterFace

    JesterFace Commander Red Shirt

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    Tell us more... few examples?
     
  11. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    What did Star Trek do first?
     
  12. xavier

    xavier Commander

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    The true relationship between Kirk and spock? huh:confused: I hope that is a joke right?:confused: Am sorry but I do not see kirk and spock as sex buddies. Kirk and Spock are just too three dimensional when they have romantic ties to and with women. To ignore that aspect of their character will just be wrong and will suck. Some of the most memorable moments in trek and the women drama they had.

    To try and force them to a sexual relationship will be OOC. Two men can be close and be the best of friends and it does not mean they having sex or want to have sex with eachohter.

    I also do not see Kirk not having sex with women. its something he greatly enjoys although I am no fan of the three way sex scene in Into Darkness.:eek:

    I find it cringe worthy that some people always imply sex in all close friendship especially between guys. That to me ruins the friendships and turns it to some kind of porn fiction/film for girls.

    Somethings in life are way beyond sex. when you force sex into relationships or bromances it ruins the whole thing. can you imagaine kirk having sex with carol and spock says...let me join for a three way or carol needs to leave because he wants to take over.:wtf:

    sorry, I will leave that in the K/S fan fictions that girls enjoy so much. it will suck if they put that in a professional and serious trek original screenplay that requires substances and a romance in depth unless you want trek to flop badly and win lots of razzies for worst film of the year like Jennifer lopez and ben affleck Gigli that has the same similar story line.:scream:
     
  13. borgboy

    borgboy Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Most fans who want Kirk and Spock to be together aren't just all about the sex. It's the relationship, the emotional bond that drives their fans. Whether you like it or not, it's still demeaning to diminish Kirk/Spock fans's interests down to it just being a sexual thing.
    And not all Kirk/Spock fans are "girls". Most of them are women, but there are some men in that branch of fandom too *points to self*

    Fans should be free to find subtext where they want without criticism. You don't have to agree with it to respect other people's differences. I'd find it much more interesting and meaningful if Kirk and Spock did take their relationship to the next level instead of Kirk having predictable and meaningless threeways with cat women and oogling his subordinates in their underwear.

    It's not as if Kirk or Spock ever declared they were strictly heterosexual. Bisexuality is an option.
     
  14. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There's at least two I know of:

    Lurqal (who is actually a Klingon posing as a human, but later becomes a double agent) in Vanguard

    Admiral Krell, who first appeared in ENT, was IIRC established as gay in subsequent novels
     
  15. borgboy

    borgboy Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    There was a gay Klingon with a doctor husband in the ENT novels.
    I haven't read it yet, but the IKS Gorkon novels apparently have a bisexual Klingon captain who takes lovers among his crew.
    So that's at least 4 LGB Klingons, plus however many more are sleeping with their captain.
     
  16. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That would be the one I just mentioned. ;)

    If you're thinking of Klag, there's no indication he ever took a male lover. There's a lot about his relationship with (female) B'Oraq, but the only other thing it says is that Klag usually doesn't sleep with anyone on his crew.
     
  17. borgboy

    borgboy Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I didn't remember the Enterprise Klingon's name, but I remember I really liked him, he was a strong warrior who just happened to have a husband, and no one thought anything of it. It's a really nice portrayal, and gives depth and diversity to the Klingons that goes against many people's preconceived notions of Klingons, homosexuality and masculinity. I've heard many people talk about how Klingons wouldn't accept homosexuality, because they equate it with weakness, which only shows their own cultural bias.

    I have heard there's a bi Klingon in the Gorkon books, but I don't know if it's supposed to be Klag.
     
  18. Ithekro

    Ithekro Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It should be noted that some of the writers did try to introduce homosexual characters into Star Trek. These were rejected, or altered most of the time. Closest that it came was probably bisexual in Deep Space Nine (Dax and basically all the Mirror universe non-human females), some gender neutral species in Next Generation and the three sex species in Enterprise.

    The Star Trek: Phase II episode "Blood and Fire" was an episode originally written for the Next Generation's second season, but rejected/canceled due to the writers strike that year.
     
  19. xavier

    xavier Commander

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    Yes but this is exactly what I am saying. two people can be friends without it meaning sex or let me use the term romantic. that is why they are called best friends or brothers. its not really fair to cdemand that because two guys are close they need to have a romance. that would not work unless the men are actually gay.

    Kirk and Spock can not take they relationship to the next level because they are not sexually or romantically attracted to each other. they have called each other friends.

    I do not know if you are familiar with Lord of the rings but frodo and sam are like kirk and spock. two deep friends who shared a journey together that defined them and helped shaped them but sam was very much in love with rosie. he married and had kids with her at the end.


    what i am trying to say is people can be close and be best friends and it does not mean it is romantic and has romantic subtext. There are different sorts of love. not all love is romantic or sexual love.

    Most K/S fans are female and that is understandable .women like to erase the female characters for the scenario because it interferes with their sexual fantasy.

    Its the same scenario of how men enjoy girl and girl action.

    That has do more with human sexuality than real romantic love.

    slash is generally known as fiction that is written by women for other women.

    Its like Sherlock, how there are many sexual stories of sherlock Holmes and john Watson.:eek: the fan base is largely driven by women.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2014
  20. Smellmet

    Smellmet Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I always thought of it like, they're hundreds of years into the future, and it's no longer a big deal like it is today and is therefore not mentioned, in the same way say, hair colour is now. Look how much thing have changed in the last 30 years. Imagine another 2 centuries...
     

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